FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores • Hacker News Board

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#631

Post by 9rx » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 5:46 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #627

9rx wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Attitudes around education in the US vary wildly across the population. Is that in some way unique to the US? I would say the same is true here. Certainly when talking to people out on the street, there are clearly some who value schooling to the utmost degree while others dismiss it entirely. I expect this is the case anywhere a sizeable population is found. > the people who want a good education for their kids wa…

I don't expect it's unique to the US, but I can't speak for other areas. At least any time I've looked, real estate prices for the same floorplan home a couple neighborhoods over in a different school area can differ by a couple hundred thousand dollars, and "good schools" are a common thing for people to say they prioritize, so the effect seems real enough here. I've seen this in multiple cities/states. Like I said,…

> "good schools" are much more about the kids and families than the teachers.

Is this a euphemism for "it is really about being around people who are white"? Another commenter here used similar language to this and, once we drilled down into the nitty gritty, it turns out that is what was being said. "White flight" is certainly a thing.

Admittedly, where I am only 2% of the population are visible minorities. You can live anywhere your heart desires, in any school district, and you are, for all sake of practicality, only going to find white people. Perhaps this is why the concept you present seem so foreign to me?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#632

Post by banannaise » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

Whoppertime wrote: post #530

banannaise wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes, among other things, that they come from a stable home that has space for them and access to the things they need to create and maintain an income stream.

If you look at the home ownership rates of that generation it would be a fair assumption

For the entire population, sure. For a subpopulation that doesn't have a stable income, not necessarily, particularly given class mobility statistics.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#633

Post by vel0city » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

9rx wrote: post #629

vel0city wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to most people being called a dog is berating. Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating. > I engaged in your analysis to see if I can understand if you were confusing opportunity with number of jobs It sure seems more like you engaged with the analysis to say I'm wrong about objectively factual things and called me a dog when I provided sources. > I wondered what…

> Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating. How so? What are you thinking? Additionally, it is interesting that you left out the "if". What was the thought process there? > called me a dog when I provided sources. I likened you to a dog wanting to pointlessly please its master. Call it berating if you will, but that is the behavior I see dogs exhibit and that is the behav…

You don't see how stating someone has limited thought capacity is berating. You don't see how being called a dog is berating. And now you're suggesting I see you as my master, wow. You might want to re-evaluate what people would commonly find berating. Go discuss that with others and see what you find out.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#634

Post by SirMaster » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

corford wrote: post #583

bryanlarsen wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent per square foot per person as a fraction of income has been relatively constant. Rent has gone from 13% of income in 1970 to 30% of income today, but average house size has doubled and average family size has halved.

Renting is not owning (no benefits accrue from asset appreciation). The same calc for ownership is very different. Also would love to know % of population in 1970 that rented versus today. My guess is it's much higher today.

But renting has no property taxes or maintenance costs and should cost a lot less, meaning you can take the money that would have gone to those other things and invest it to earn returns on it.

I pay 600/mo in rent, so 7200 a year. A basic house around me would easily be about 7200 in property tax + average annual maintenance costs + increased utility costs + increased insurance.

So how am I losing out on anything unless you think that a house value (minus loan rate) would appreciate more than I can earn with that money instead invested in the stock market or some other real-estate investment deal like multi-family units.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#635

Post by 9rx » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:14 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #633

9rx wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating. How so? What are you thinking? Additionally, it is interesting that you left out the "if". What was the thought process there? > called me a dog when I provided sources. I likened you to a dog wanting to pointlessly please its master. Call it berating if you will, but that is the behavior I see dogs exhibit and that is the behav…

You don't see how stating someone has limited thought capacity is berating. You don't see how being called a dog is berating. And now you're suggesting I see you as my master, wow. You might want to re-evaluate what people would commonly find berating. Go discuss that with others and see what you find out.

> You don't see how stating someone has limited thought capacity is berating.

No. If someone has limited thought capacity, they have limited thought capacity. That is just a fact of life. For someone so concerned about the veracity of data, how can you see a datapoint as being berating?

Granted, the datapoint in this case is only hypothetical (as you would have noticed if you retained the "if"), but such datapoints also do exist in the real data. There absolutely are people in this world with limited thought capacity. That much is not a hypothetical.

> You don't see how being called a dog is berating.

Likened to a dog. But, no. Why?

> You might want to re-evaluate what people would commonly find berating.

I'm sure you've got some great data for me to look at, but my understanding is that people find something berating when they understand a statement as some kind of truth that they don't want to admit to themselves. It is quite obvious that nobody feels berated when an assertion is so outlandish that it couldn't be true. That becomes comedy.

I have no illusions of being anything related to a dog, so if you likened me to — or even straight up called me — a dog, I would not find that berating, no. If you went after my actual insecurities, then sure. I would then. I am certainly not immune to silly human emotion, but silly human emotion does not get triggered by random strings of text.

So, perhaps this is good opportunity to dive into why you feel insecure about your thought capacity and animal shapeliness for these particular strings to activate your emotions. What are your thoughts there?

(And my apologies for finding your insecurities. I would have never guessed those particular things would bother anyone. The things you learn from having a discussion!)

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#636

Post by SirMaster » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:14 PM UTC

cyberge99 wrote: post #486

johnnyanmac wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "woth careful use" is carrying a trillion dollar industry on its back, sadly. Clearly society is in fact not careful.

Not really. The people that pay interest on credit cards are the ones that pay for the luxuries/points/rewards of those who use credit cards wisely. If I get a 0% apr credit card for 18 months, i put all of my expenses on it for 16 months. I put that equivalent cash in to a high interest yield savings account (HYSA) and pay the card off before it’s due. I pocket the difference since the bank just gave me a free loan.

I thought the businesses pay it? Isn't it like 3% for a transaction fee that a business has to pay to accept a credit card, and the credit card company gives me the card user back like 1% or 1.5%.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#637

Post by SirMaster » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:20 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #545

WalterBright wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will cost you 35k a year > If instead you rent it for 20k a year Some good numbers, but what is missing is the result of investing $35k-$20k=$15k per year. Let's say you earn a %7 real return on $15k/year invested for 60-25=35 years. Writing a little program: import core.stdc.stdio; void main() { double d = 0; foreach (i; 0..35) d = (d+15000)*1.07; printf("d: $%f\n", d); } Yields $2,218,701 I would think twice a…

Can’t argue with the math but one thing about a mortgage is it takes no effort. Just pay the bill and time does the rest. With stock investment there’s an emotional attachment to every major swing, should you buy or should you sell is never far from your thoughts. Using a home as an investment may not make the most return but it’s easy as long as you can pay the bill.

Huh? I invest tens of thousands a year into stocks and have never once thought should I buy or sell. I just auto buy weekly, it couldn't be easier and I never think about it at all. They even have funds that automatically re-balance as you approach retirement.

Also you are acting like the housing market can't also crash.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#638

Post by SirMaster » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:23 PM UTC

ta1243 wrote: post #297

lesuorac wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd have to invest the savings and get way higher than inflation returns to break even. You say that like it's a difficult thing to do. S&P500 is up 710% since 1996. Gold is up 92% since 2012. Personally, the rent control is the best part of a mortgage and even though renting is typically better, I'm fine paying a premium for that. That said, good luck getting somebody to loan you 900k so you can play the stock m…

> Gold is up 92% since 2012. And housing is up 125% since 2012, so the sucker who bought gold instead of a house has lost out. We can all be rich in hindsight. (There's also other benefits to owning - like being able to have pets, not being able to be evicted, etc) But the biggest tell that housing is valuable is that nobody is spending $500k on housing to rent it out if they could make more money pumping $500k into…

But owning a house has other costs that owning gold doesn't.

Are you factoring in property taxes, maintenance costs, utility costs, insurance, etc?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#639

Post by mrguyorama » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:58 PM UTC

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #549

pests wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stayed with distant family for a bit around COVID when everyone was WFH. Him and his wife must have gotten 3-5 DoorDash deliveries a day pretty reliably, I was blown away. Each ordering their own thing from different restaurants. Random “I want a donut from 711 at 1am” where I’m sure fees/tip were multiples of the actual food cost. Sometimes the different drivers would arrive at the same time and we’d have a little…

When COVID started my wealthiest elders decided to start eating out for every meal in order "to support local businesses." Ironically, they did not leave any tips because "you don't tip unless you sit down in the restaurant." You're not helping in the way you think you are, Gramps.

>You're not helping in the way you think you are, Gramps.

Why do you believe this? Tips cannot go to the business, and businesses were closing during covid because they weren't making any revenue.

The tips helped servers sure, but so did buying food from their place of work such that they can continue to have a job, unless that job literally paid less than minimum wage or unemployment, which is its own atrocity.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#640

Post by ndriscoll » Wed, Jun 25, 2025, 6:58 PM UTC

9rx wrote: post #631

ndriscoll wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect it's unique to the US, but I can't speak for other areas. At least any time I've looked, real estate prices for the same floorplan home a couple neighborhoods over in a different school area can differ by a couple hundred thousand dollars, and "good schools" are a common thing for people to say they prioritize, so the effect seems real enough here. I've seen this in multiple cities/states. Like I said,…

> "good schools" are much more about the kids and families than the teachers. Is this a euphemism for "it is really about being around people who are white"? Another commenter here used similar language to this and, once we drilled down into the nitty gritty, it turns out that is what was being said. "White flight" is certainly a thing. Admittedly, where I am only 2% of the population are visible minorities. You can…

I think I was pretty explicit about what that means: the discrimination is more around class. My local school is one of the best in the state for example, and is ~60% "white" vs. ~80% for the local population. In fact the stats I see indicate that every racial minority group has higher representation within the student body than within the wider city. The more relevant factor is that a bunch of doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. live in the area. There are no homes in the area for under $1M, and many are $5M+. There is no multi-family housing. 1% of the students qualify for the income-based free lunch program.

The spending per student is below average and lower than nearby worse schools, so it's not that the rich people have a higher tax base to create better schools. It's that the professional class takes for granted that of course their kids are going to take every AP class. They want their kids' friends to have that attitude too, and they expect the school to offer AP everything. If it doesn't, they won't live there.

"Buy the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood" is an adage here for aspirationally upwardly mobile people. So basically use your money to mix with higher classes rather than on material goods (and put your kids in school with the highest class group you are able to).