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The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

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Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of now yes. But we are still in day 0.1 of GenAI. Do you think this will be the case when o3 models are 10x better and 100x cheaper? There will be a turning point but it’s not happened yet.

Yet we're what? 5 years into "AI will replace programmers in 6 months"? 10 years into "we'll have self driving cars next year" We're 10 years into "it's just completely obvious that within 5 years deep learning is going to replace radiologists" Moravec's paradox strikes again and again. But this time it's different and it's completely obvious now, right?

As far as I've seen we appear to already have self driving vehicles, the main barriers are legal and regulatory concerns rather than the tech. If a company wanted to put a car on the road that beetles around by itself there aren't any crazy technical challenges to doing that - the issue is even if it was safer than a human driver the company would have a lot of liability problems.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#632
post #416

Maybe someone can help me wrap my head around this in a different way, because here's how I see it. If these tools are really making people so productive, shouldn't it be painfully obvious in companies' output? For example, if these AI coding tools were an amazing productivity boost in the end, we'd expect to see software companies shipping features and fixes faster than ever before. There would be a huge burst in in…

"shouldn't it be painfully obvious in companies' output?" No. The bottleneck isn't intellectual productivity. The bottleneck is a legion of other things; regulation, IP law, marketing, etc. The executive email writers and meeting attenders have a swarm of business considerations ricocheting around in their heads in eternal battle with each other. It takes a lot of supposedly brilliant thinking to safely monetize all…

Bullshit: Chatbots are not failing to demonstrate a tangible increase in companies' output because of regulations and IP law, they are failing because they are still not good for the job.

LLMs only exist because the companies developing them are so ridiculously powerful that can completely ignore the rule of law, or if necessary even change it (as they are currently trying to do here in Europe).

Remember we are talking about a technology created by torrenting 82 TB of pirated books, and that's just one single example.

"Steal all the users, steal all the music" and then lawyer up, as Eric Schmidt said at Stanford a few months ago.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#633
While I agree that the current 'bloodbath' narrative is all hype, I'm honestly confused by a lot of the sentiment i see on here towards AI. Namely the dismissal of continual improvement and the rampant whistling past the graveyard attitude of what is coming.

It is confusing because many of the dismissals come from programmers, who are unequivocally the prime beneficiaries of genAI capability as it stands.

I work as a marketing engineer at a ~1B company and the amount of gains I have been able to provide as an individual are absolutely multiplied by genAI.

One theory I have is that maybe it is a failing of prompt ability that is causing the doubt. Prompting, fundamentally, is querying vector space for a result - and there is a skill to it. There is a gross lack of tooling to assist in this which I attribute to a lack of awareness of this fact. The vast majority of genAI users dont have any sort of prompt library or methodology to speak of beyond a set of usual habits that work well for them.

Regardless, the common notion that AI has only marginally improved since GPT-4 is criminally naive. The notion that we have hit a wall has merit, of course, but you cannot ignore the fact that we just got accurate 1M context in a SOTA model with gemini 2.5pro. For free. Mere months ago. This is a leap. If you have not experienced that as a leap then you are using LLM's incorrectly.

You cannot sleep on context. Context (and proper utilization of it) is literally what shores up 90% of the deficiencies I see complained about.

AI forgets libraries and syntax? Load in the current syntax. Deep research it. AI keeps making mistakes? Inform it of those mistakes and keep those stored in your project for use in every prompt.

I consistently make 200k+ token queries of code and context and receive highly accurate results.

I build 10-20k loc tools in hours for fun. Are they production ready? No. Do they accomplish highly complex tasks for niche use cases? Yes.

The empowerment of the single developer who is good at manipulating AI AND an experienced dev/engineer is absolutely incredible.

Deep research alone has netted my company tens of millions in pipeline, and I just pretend it's me. Because that's the other part that maybe many aren't realizing - its right under your nose - constantly.

The efficiency gains in marketing are hilariously large. There are countless ways to avoid 'AI slop', and it involves, again, leveraging context and good research, and a good eye to steer things.

I post this mostly because I'm sad for all of the developers who have not experienced this. I see it as a failure of effort (based on some variant of emotional bias or arrogance), not a lack of skill or intellect. The writing on the wall is so crystal clear.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#634

I think the real white collar bloodbath is that the end of ZIRP was the end of infinite software job postings, and the start of layoffs. I think its easy to now point to AI, but it seems like a canard for the huge thing that already happened. just look at this: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1JmOr In terms of magnitude the effect of this is just enormous and still being felt, and never recovered to pre-2020 lev…

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Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#635
post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decade? The explosion of funding, awareness etc only happened after gpt-3 launch

That was five years ago not yesterday.

I didn't say yesterday.

Nonetheless it took openai til Nov 2022 for 1 Million users.

The overall awareness and breakthrough was probably not at 2020.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keynes lived in a time when the working class was organized and exerting its power over its destiny. We live in a time that the working class is unbelievably brainwashed and manipulated.

He was extrapolating, as well. Going from children in the mines to the welfare state in a generation was quite something. Unfortunately, progress slowed down significantly for many reasons but I don’t think we should really blame Keynes for this. > We live in a time that the working class is unbelievably brainwashed and manipulated. I think it has always been that way. Looking through history, there are many examples…

There’s no middle class. You either have to work for a living or you don’t.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#637

I think the real white collar bloodbath is that the end of ZIRP was the end of infinite software job postings, and the start of layoffs. I think its easy to now point to AI, but it seems like a canard for the huge thing that already happened. just look at this: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1JmOr In terms of magnitude the effect of this is just enormous and still being felt, and never recovered to pre-2020 lev…

Keynes suggested that by 2030, we’d be working 15 hour workweeks, with the rest of the time used for leisure. Instead, we chose consumption, and helicopter money gave us bullshit jobs so we could keep buying more bullshit. This is fairly evident by the fact when the helicopter money runs out, all the bullshit jobs get cut. AI may give us more efficiency, but it will be filled with more bullshit jobs and consumption,…

Some countries are still trending in that direction:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/21/icelan...

Policy matters

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so true. We had a (admittedly derogatory) term we used during the rise in interest rates, "zero interest rate product managers". Don't get me wrong, I think great product managers are worth their weight in gold, but I encountered so many PMs during the ZIRP era who were essentially just Jira-updaters and meeting-schedulers. The vast majority of folks I see that were in tech that are having trouble getting hir…

Off-shoring is pretty big right now but what shocks me is that when I walk around my company campus I see obscene amounts of people visibly and culturally from, mostly, India and China. The idea that literally massive amounts of this workforce couldn't possibly be filled by domestic grads is pretty hard to engage with. These are low level business and accounting analyst positions. Both sides of the aisle retreated fr…

It's also worth noting that it's almost entirely native born Americans that are pushing back against nepotism. Extreme nepotism is still the norm (an expectation even) in most South and East Asian cultures. And it's quite readily acknowledged if you speak to newer hires who haven't realized yet that it is best kept quiet.

It's a hard truth for many Americans to swallow, but it is the truth nonetheless.

Not to say there isn't an incredible amount of merit... but the historical impact of rampant nepotism in the US is widely acknowledged, and this newer manifestation should be acknowledged just the same.

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#639
post #16

> To be clear, Amodei didn’t cite any research or evidence for that 50% estimate. I truly belive these types of paper don't deserve to be valued so much.

And the journalist cited what research or evidence, precisely, in his rebuttal?

Re: The ‘white-collar bloodbath’ is all part of the AI hype machine

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI tools seem to be most useful for little things. Fixing a little bug, making a little change. But those things aren’t always very visible or really move the needle. It may help you build a real product feature quicker, but AI is not necessarily doing the research and product design which is probably the bottleneck for seeing real impact.

If they're fixing all the little bugs that should give everyone much more time to think about product design and do the research.

Or a lot of small fixes all over the place. Yet in reality we dont see this anywhere, not sure what exactly that means.

Maybe overall complexity creeping up rolls over any small gains, or devs are becoming more lazy and just copy paste llms output without a serious look at it?

My company didnt even adapt or allow use of llms in any way for anything so far (private client data security is more important than any productivity gains, which anyway seems questionable when looking around.. and serious data breaches can end up with fines in hundreds of millions ballpark easily).

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