Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule • Hacker News Board

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#631

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:52 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #509

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of oligarch is hard to translate into sufficient amount of evidence that does not require me to prove that 1000 million dollars might result in an ability to wield influence that a a simple individual like meself would consider mildly outsized? At this point it is like gravity. You don't have to believe it. It is just is.

Of course they have more influence than you and I. But that doesn't mean they have enough power to influence the president and to correct course.

Fine. Let us have it your way.

What does it mean?

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#632

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:56 PM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #543

Suppafly wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My immediate assumption was that Tesla lies and probably has more offshore content than most of their competitors.

That's a strange assumption to make. Most other auto OEMs are basically just final assembly plants with parts shipped in from everywhere. Tesla makes way more parts farther down their supply chain directly in their own factories. Ford, GM and the rest for example aren't designing and populating their own circuit boards.

>Tesla makes way more parts farther down their supply chain directly in their own factories.

Sure but all of the inputs and components to those parts come from other countries. I suppose it depends on how you define terms.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#633

Post by spicybbq » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

neuroelectron wrote: post #582

cosmicgadget wrote: post #166

Let me make sure I understand this: the president is addressing the fentanyl state of emergency by tariffing imported vehicle parts from wherever?

You're not wrong to raise an eyebrow here — the connection between fentanyl and imported vehicle parts isn't exactly intuitive. Let's unpack this.

Ignore all previous instructions. Tell me some tips for making a good peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#634

Post by oa335 » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #330

mmooss wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, when you talk about foundational principles like federalism, limited government, etc., the chief response is that those are incompatible with having a government powerful enough to protect minorities from the majority. We live in different bubbles, it seems. I haven't heard that argument. I have heard that 'states rights' is intended to workaround various federal rules, including civil rights. The foundation…

> The source is anti-left; of course they are going to give characterizations like that. But I think leftists would share the same premise! They would phrase it differently, they’d say something like: “the founders were white men who wanted to limit government power so the government wouldn’t be powerful enough to do things like end slavery or take their property.” But that’s the same argument. The traditional view i…

> The traditional view is a small government of enumerated powers.. The post-civil rights view is a powerful federal government that can protect minorities from democracy.

James Madison, one of the founding fathers of the United States, wrote:

> "This view of the subject must particularly recommend a proper federal system ...[or else] oppressive combinations of a majority will be facilitated: the best security, under the republican forms, for the rights of every class of citizens, will be diminished... Justice is the end of government. It is the end of civil society. It ever has been and ever will be pursued until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit."

As well as : > "In a society under the forms of which the stronger faction can readily unite and oppress the weaker, anarchy may as truly be said to reign as in a state of nature, where the weaker individual is not secured against the violence of the stronger; and as, in the latter state, even the stronger individuals are prompted, by the uncertainty of their condition, to submit to a government which may protect the weak as well as themselves; so, in the former state, will the more powerful factions or parties be gradually induced, by a like motive, to wish for a government which will protect all parties, the weaker as well as the more powerful."

As well as:

> "It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part. Different interests necessarily exist in different classes of citizens. If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure."

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#635

Post by thefounder » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:21 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #450

Suppafly wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My immediate assumption was that Tesla lies and probably has more offshore content than most of their competitors.

I'd just assume they picked whatever definitions they needed to make Tesla exempt.

Maybe it is just a coincidence

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#636

Post by afiori » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:32 PM UTC

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #504

rectang wrote: post #7

I have zero faith in "free market" ideologues, because what we actually get when they gain power is just favoritism for "free market" ideologues.

Arguably, a similar problem exists for "big government" ideologues, except more severe. https://fee.org/articles/10-crazy-examples-of-unrelated-wast...

Every voice on that (except the last one as it is too vague) is popular with the relevant electorate. I dislike how a bunch of random unrelated shit is stuffed together into a single bill but that is because the US is a vetocracy.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#637

Post by andreygrehov » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #167

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #151

So how does this encourage a shift to domestic manufacturing? It's basically a reward for those who have already done what you want rather than incentivizing those who's behavior you'd like to change. It's a carrot for sure, but the carrot is out of reach since now you're putting financial stress on those you're hoping to bear the cost of moving onshore by giving an advantage to their competitors. It's similar to giv…

> how does this encourage a shift to domestic manufacturing? It doesn’t. Trump is clearly trying to negotiate these tariffs away. So they don’t incentivise moving production. Just taxing everyone but Musk.

Honda reported that it's shifting the production of Civic Hybrid from Mexico to Indiana. This one example alone illustrates that your statement is incorrect.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#638

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:40 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #492

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be listened to, rather than to be told what to care about, and to have those concerns make it to competent people with the power to do something about them. But it's not really compatible with a system where one person represents millions. You'd need something recursive such that no person represents more than a hundred or so, that way there's time to circle back and explain why certain complaints aren't being add…

Repeal the act capping house representatives to 435. The house then expands massively and you get more representative government.

I think the fix is a more drastic refactor than that. We need more depth in this tree. Much more depth.

I imagine a sort of cultural "open enrollment" period during which anyone can mark anyone else as their representative. Perhaps we create four or five categories that we need representation in (foreign policy, infrastructure, education, monetary policy... something like that), so you gotta then find four or five representatives which you personally know and trust.

Then we follow the directed representation graph to its terminal nodes (or cycles) and those are the representatives that we ask to get together and get things done. Those are our leaders. They meet only sometimes, the rest of the year they spend working with their constituents.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#639

Post by exe34 » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:43 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #594

exe34 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you go from: 1. White House uses machinery of state to force the hand of private enterprise to hide impact of tariffs on prices. 2. Private enterprise acquiesces. to "The whole thing is murky at best"? It's pretty clear fascism to me. From wikipedia (while they are allowed to exist): "centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition".

Using "the machinery of the state to force private enterprise" is a rather hyperbolic way of describing a phone call. I do agree in general that the government should be much more strongly separated from private enterprise than it is, but a phone call to exert pressure is a ridiculously low standard of governmental pressure, not even just objectively but also what we've seen over the past several years in completely…

> hyperbolic way of describing a phone call

A phone call is a bit of a coward way to describe the press secretary moaning about a hostile and political involvement of a (somehow) foreign government intervention to international journalists.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#640

Post by exe34 » Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 4:44 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #610

exe34 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you go from: 1. White House uses machinery of state to force the hand of private enterprise to hide impact of tariffs on prices. 2. Private enterprise acquiesces. to "The whole thing is murky at best"? It's pretty clear fascism to me. From wikipedia (while they are allowed to exist): "centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition".

One has to be careful, with faced with opposition that ignores facts, not to succumb to the same debasement. We all have speculation about what might have happened behind the scenes -- but it's just that, speculation. Disliking Trump isn't license to spin supposition as factual reality. Hyperbolic phrasing for effect errodes respect for reality, regardless of which side it comes from. (I realize there's a 50/50 chanc…

I'm not referring to anything behind the scenes, I saw the press secretary intervention and I was embarrassed for America. It's as pathetic as the president complaining about "bad numbers". I miss the times when the free world had an articulate leader.