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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#631

Post by fzeroracer »

lliamander wrote: post #551
cactacea wrote: post #454

ICE has absolutely no business in state courthouses. The federal interest in enforcing immigration law should not be placed above the state's interest in enforcing equal protection under the law. Consider the case of a undocumented rape victim. Do they not deserve justice? Are we better off letting a rapist go free when their victim cannot testify against them because they were deported? I think not and I do not want…

[flagged]

People in this country have rights, regardless of how they entered. You either believe in the constitution and it's application to all citizens and non-citizens or you're a fascist.

I'm not going to quibble on any other bits of misdirection or failure to read other people's posts. Pick your side.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#632

Post by nxobject »

ldoughty wrote: post #509
mjburgess wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is all true, it still requires the judge be under some legal order to facilitate the deportation -- unless they have a warrant of the relevant type, the judge is under no such obligation. With a standard (administrative) warrant, ICE have no authority to demand the arrest.

The violation is not that the judge _did not assist_, but that the judge took additional actions to ensure the defendant could access restricted areas they otherwise would have no right to be in so that they could get out of the building unseen. The judge was aware of the warrant and ensured the defendant remained in private areas so they could get out of the building. The FBI's argument is that her actions were unus…

Given that, it'll be interested to see how guidance on courthouse security on whether to let ICE in with administrative warrants is updated.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#633

Post by saalweachter »

nashashmi wrote: post #368
saalweachter wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separate evidence for ...?

evidence of crime separate than what is obtained via compulsion of circumstances.

What do you need the evidence for, I mean?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#634

Post by chmorgan_ »

The irony that the judge would likely have held you in contempt if you didn't obey one of their orders but seems to think it's ok to help people pursued by other law enforcement to skip out. The judge should know that even they aren't above the law and they can't override other judicial and administrative rulings just because they disagree with them.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#635

Post by neilpointer »

I think the judge understands the law more deeply than ICE agents. Very unlikely that the judge will be found guilty of the crime charged by FBI, but that's not the point. The point is for Trump and his cronies to scare the judiciary into submission.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#636

Post by [deleted] »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #617
Animats wrote: post #602

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

There is no suggestion that the agents conducted a search or entered a non-public area. And this has nothing to do with the claim that the judge actively obstructed their efforts.

[deleted]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#637

Post by godelski »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #607
godelski wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you consider illegal immigrants as people Actually, I disagree[0]. The logic works just fine if you recognize that it is impossible to achieve 100% success rate. It is absolutely insane to me that on a website full of engineers people do not consider failure analysis when it comes to laws. Conditioned that you have not determined someone is an illegal immigrant: _______What do you want to happen here? __________…

This is full of flaws. After due process via courts, deportation is justified. So you need a big "if" before all of that. ICE is not the police. There should be no (broad) if-clause to grant rights. Unknown citizenship is not something you need to check for constantly, as you hinted.

  > After due process via courts, deportation is justified.
Yes?

  >> if (person.citizenStatus == illegal && person.citizenStatus in police.knowledge()) {
     deport(person, police)
After due process citizen status is in police knowledge, right? So they're illegal, ICE knows it, and our flow chart says... deport.

Which condition do you believe is not satisfied? Do you believe the status of the person is not "illegal"? If so, why would we deport them? Or do you believe that the police are not aware of the person's citizenship status? If so how could we deport them?

  > ICE is not the police.

  Police (noun) [0]
  1 a: the department of government concerned primarily with maintenance of public order, safety, and health and enforcement of laws and possessing executive, judicial, and legislative powers
    b: the department of government charged with prevention, detection, and prosecution of public nuisances and crimes

  United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (aka ICE) [1]
  a federal law enforcement agency under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
ICE is a LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, they are de facto "police." I think you are confusing the fact that "police" is a broad term and because it is less common to deal with federal law enforcement you have a higher frequency of hearing local law enforcement being referred to as "the police". But they both are. "Police" == "Law Enforcement"

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_E...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#638

Post by const_cast »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #526
andrewstuart2 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world, maybe that's how it would work. In reality, that's not how it works or likely ever will work. So the comment you're replying to is a pragmatic approach to "how do we make the world we actually live in, not some idealized fantasy, safer?"

In reality, Trump's tough on illegal immigrants approach has drastically reduced the number of illegal border crossings compared to Biden's term. So, it seems that "people living in the country illegally" doesn't have to just be a fact of life, if there are federal policy changes that can radically alter the number of people who illegally enter the country.

Sure, if this is true... and it only came at the cost of due process.

Even if you prevent everyone from coming here illegally, you'll still have "illegal" immigrants. I would wager most illegal immigrants came here perfectly legally.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#639

Post by lliamander »

cactacea wrote: post #600
lliamander wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have completely missed the point of my comment.

No, you made up a hypothetical scenario that was highly sympathetic to your position. I am saying that we should not let edge cases (real or hypothetical) dictate general policy on how we handle immigration law enforcement, and that any outrage we feel at the tragedies that result from such enforcement should be directed toward the people that allowed these situations to develop in the first place.
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