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A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

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Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#631

Post by porphyra »

spicybbq wrote: post #583
bufferoverflow wrote: post #341

150 mile range makes it close to useless. As soon as you take it on a highway, the range will likely drop by half. Which means you can only do a round trip of 37 miles before you have to charge. Even a very aerodynamic Model 3 loses half of range at highway speeds. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/vkz0SOnR45Gved9B-q9n...

It really depends on how they define their mileage rating. If it is an inflated number like some EV manufacturers, then yeah. If it is a conservative rating, then it's a useful amount of range for an "in town" vehicle.

It's not about "inflating" it. It's more that the energy needed to move your car a certain distance is quadratically related to the speed, due to aerodynamic drag.

Efficient vehicles spend less energy on other stuff besides moving the car (e.g. by having heat pumps, induction motors that can be turned off without any drag, etc), so tests conducted at a lower speed will appear to have a better range than tests at a higher speed. Meanwhile, less efficient vehicles that waste energy at low speeds will appear to have more similar range at both low and high speeds.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#632

Post by resters »

This is extremely refreshing. I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even. Cars and trucks are so over-engineered and come with tons of low value options intended to drive up the price.

For a case in point, consider that headlights that turn on and off automatically in response to darkness (or rain) are not a standard feature on many cars, yet they include a manual switch that costs more than a photosensor only because of the trim-level upgrades.

Cars could include a slot for a tablet but instead come with overpriced car stereos and infotainment systems that are always light years worse than the most amateurish apps on any mobile app store.

As should be very clear by now after the 2008 US auto industry bailouts and the 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs, the US auto industry is heavily protected and faces virtually no competition, which is why a common sense vehicle like the one in the article sounds revolutionary, though I imagine BYD could deliver something a lot more impressive for $10K if allowed to compete in the US without tariffs.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#633

Post by enslavedrobot »

Animats wrote: post #630
ryandrake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues. Noooooooooo! No apps, please ! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it! EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :( > - Lack of go…

> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Why should it lack that? That's a tiny piece of software in the charge controller, which on this vehicle ought to be some tiny microcontroller.

In car it requires liquid cooling and from conversations I've had with former Tesla engineers, exquisite control over power quality.

Just ask a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt owner.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#634

Post by Suppafly »

mgaunard wrote: post #384
Suppafly wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With all those missing of basic features why is it still 20k and not 10k? Because you can't sell a car for 10k in the US without losing money.

I never bought a car for more than 10k. Seems like a huge waste of money.

We're talking about new cars not used ones. Wait a few years and you'll be able to get one of these for 10k too. It makes no sense to discuss used car prices when talking about how much a new one costs.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#635

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

ponector wrote: post #516
MostlyStable wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example #5621 that a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have.

I think the best way is to tax fuel itself. This way worse mpg result in more tax. Tax diesel more than gasoline, LNG less.

Isn't that what a carbon tax is? Adding a tax to the fossil fuel based on carbon content.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#637

Post by sokoloff »

danans wrote: post #344
aidenn0 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's overly reductive. 1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive. 2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax 3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size,…

> 1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive. You give it back to poor as a income-phased out refundable tax credit. Crucially, base it not on how much they drive or consume, but on their income. Name it something like the "Worker's Energy Credit". In the worst case, it cancels out the car…

Giving it back based on being alive on Dec 31 seems the best solution to me. (It’s very difficult to game and if you give 900 billionaires under a million bucks in total, it’s just not that big a deal…)

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#638

Post by nandomrumber »

ponector wrote: post #516
MostlyStable wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example #5621 that a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have.

I think the best way is to tax fuel itself. This way worse mpg result in more tax. Tax diesel more than gasoline, LNG less.

Thereby penalising existing vehicle owners who can’t switch to a more efficient vehicle overnight.

We have to come up with a rigorous alternative that doesn’t disproportionately affect lower income folk, because people tend not to be overly concerned about nebulous concepts like the climate impacts on unborn future generations, especially when my carbon impact at the margin is negligible when taken in context of global population.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#639

Post by sokoloff »

bflesch wrote: post #329
aidenn0 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's overly reductive. 1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive. 2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax 3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size,…

Meanwhile jet fuel for private jets is (and remains) not taxed at all, even in the EU.

This is a common trope, but is incorrect, at least for the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#640

Post by ceejayoz »

DangitBobby wrote: post #628
ceejayoz wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of use cases for a ~100 mile truck.

Right, but it needs to be competitive with ICE cars that travel several hundred miles per tank and fill up in minutes. Literally 0 of my friends have been willing to transition to electric due primarily to range anxiety, and that's for vehicles that achieve over 200 miles per charge. I drive an EV and even I would simply never, ever consider this vehicle based on the range.

I’d want one of these for in-town stuff, which is 90% of my driving.
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