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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#631

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

fforflo wrote: post #153

In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read: > This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “s…

I am really sorry for pope francis's death. I truly am. But to me, this was the first time that I ever saw that vatican has its .va and vatican.va ....

Out of curiosity, Who hosts the holy servers?

Again I don't want to demean anyone's death.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#633

Post by lupusreal »

pqtyw wrote: post #605
lupusreal wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that at some point we can develop artificial wombs and use them to render this whole debate moot. Instead of abortion we can take the fetus out, put it into an artificial womb then let it be raised as an orphan or whatever. It should make both sides happy, IF they are both being honest about their motives.

> as an orphan or whatever Are there any developed countries where there arent year long queues for those wanting to adopt infants? I doubt many of them (if they are healthy) grow up orphans.

I'm not familiar with the matter, but if that's true that's even better.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#634

Post by lupusreal »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #601
lupusreal wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that at some point we can develop artificial wombs and use them to render this whole debate moot. Instead of abortion we can take the fetus out, put it into an artificial womb then let it be raised as an orphan or whatever. It should make both sides happy, IF they are both being honest about their motives.

[flagged]

Both sides present the most agreeable arguments for their position, while publicly omitting other motives, while simultaneously highlighting the least agreeable motives of their opponents and omitting or flat out denying their more agreeable motives.

I don't mind being candid (not least because I am not an important person and this is not an important discussion, the stakes are low so there is no pressing need to lie), so I'll say one of the quiet parts out loud for the side I mainly sit on: I think there is plausible social benifit to aborting pregnancies caused by rapists. Not only because rapists might carry genes for aggression, but also because rape circumvents the valuable social/physical fitness selection which women normally perform when choosing who to have babies with. Pro-choice advocates will almost never admit to believing anything like this, because it essentially validates the criticism antiabortion advocates have, that their opponents are eugenicists. To be clear, many pro-choice advocates aren't, and I don't think this particular argument would make or break the debate (it doesn't for me), but it is a potential source of contention pro-choice people might have with my artificial womb proposal.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#635

Post by larkost »

rglullis wrote: post #479
wat10000 wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of Christianity actively promotes it? There’s that one line, which meaning is debated, in a book full of stories about religious governments. In any case, I only care about the practicalities. In terms of what they try to achieve, there’s no real difference between the Christian and Muslim dominionists.

> There’s that one line. And centuries of liberal democracies where the church was just one institution that had no direct rule over its subjects?

The word "direct" is carrying an awful lot of weight in that sentence. The Catholic Church (as well as the Protestant and others) are very responsible for, or at least implicated in, many horrible things in the last few hundred years alone: - signed off on the slave trade for hundreds of years (even gave excuses about how that was God's will) - during World War II they promised to hide many Jewish children, only to subsequently steal them from their parents arguing that "they are now Christian, it would be a sin to give them to Jews" - the inquisitions - were the justification for so many wars (conversion by the sword) - have long been a tool of repressive governments, arguing that it fell under "obey your father" - in the U.S. many churches, including the Catholic Church have preached that voting for one party (Democrats) is a sin (often about abortion, but other topics have been raised)

In general, the Church's political power has waned over the last 500 years or so, but there are an awful lot of calls from Republicans saying that this is where we have gone wrong.

One only look to the political donations of Opes Dei (Catholic branch dedicated to getting Cristian influence over the "Lay" sphere) to see them as major power players today. The Heritage Foundation (main writers of Project 2025) are intimately bound with the organization. And Chief Justice Roberts is also associated.

So they may not be "direct" rulers, they are major power players.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#636

Post by pbh101 »

krapp wrote: post #156
grandempire wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. That looks like a way for Catholics to support and endorse scientific research rather than a develop alternative science.

Ironically, Catholicism as an institution has a better track record of supporting science than many Protestant sects. Much of the "alternative science" comes from the Baptists and Evangelicals.

Why is this ironic?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#637

Post by ithkuil »

senderista wrote: post #570
dhosek wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the child of Italian immigrants to Argentina, Francis was quite fluent in Italian. He’s old enough that his formation would have included significant Latin instruction as well. I would guess that Benedict’s Latin skills were superior, but Francis was reasonably conversant in the language from what I understand. The thing that I found interesting was during trump’s visit to the Vatican, he asked trump’s Slovenian w…

Well of course Slovenia is Italy's neighbor, but I guess that's more surprising from a non-Italian.

I come from Croatia and have lived in Italy for a long time and it's very rare to find anybody who can barely place our countries on a map until fairly recently and let alone heard about foods or drinks. Not zero people of course, but very few

Re: Pope Francis has died

#638

Post by senderista »

ithkuil wrote: post #637
senderista wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course Slovenia is Italy's neighbor, but I guess that's more surprising from a non-Italian.

I come from Croatia and have lived in Italy for a long time and it's very rare to find anybody who can barely place our countries on a map until fairly recently and let alone heard about foods or drinks. Not zero people of course, but very few

I doubt many Americans can name a single Canadian province or Mexican state.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#639

Post by michaelsbradley »

tptacek wrote: post #483
ralfd wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including rightfully limiting the Latin mass Why is that a political thing though? The mass of the roman church was for centuries (almost all it’s history?) in latin.

It's complicated. Few people in the church, including the priests themselves, are fluent in Latin (there's a story told, I think by Francis himself, about an diocese in England that required priests to pass an exam to give a Traditional Latin Mass, and almost none of the requesting priests could pass). The TLM obscures what the mass is about, which creates space for practitioners to substitute in their own things, wh…

> The TLM obscures what the mass is about…

Well, opinions and all that…

My experience, and that of many of my fellow TLM goers that I’ve heard or read, is that we treasure solemn reverent worship that helps us focus on the Eucharistic sacrifice. If we were being distracted from “what the mass is about”, we’d take ourselves and our children elsewhere.

Here’s a video of yesterday’s Easter Sunday Mass offered by priests of the same religious order that operates the oratory where I attend Mass:

https://www.youtube.com/live/XshPZzdI0zk

If you get an opportunity, maybe attend Mass one Sunday at a location of the ICKSP or the FSSP. I believe you’ll experience a welcoming community of Catholics passionate about Jesus.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#640

Post by ithkuil »

pcwalton wrote: post #502
tptacek wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's complicated. Few people in the church, including the priests themselves, are fluent in Latin (there's a story told, I think by Francis himself, about an diocese in England that required priests to pass an exam to give a Traditional Latin Mass, and almost none of the requesting priests could pass). The TLM obscures what the mass is about, which creates space for practitioners to substitute in their own things, wh…

For fun, try searching YouTube for "speaking latin at the vatican". It's hard to find people who can speak it even there!

sed invenire potes ibi scorpiōnem martianum
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