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How the U.K. broke its own economy

theatlantic.com

631–640 of 784 posts

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#631

There are too many glaring holes in this article for it to be taken seriously. It's simply not a complete argument if you discuss the UK's current economy and don't mention 1) Brexit 2) Green energy policies

I didn't vote for Brexit, but the thing is it's not really helpful to re-rake the coals on that one - it knocked our GDP, some kind of common market with the EU would clearly be good for trade.. but to what end, we can't change this.. surely better to discuss things we can actually change?

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#632
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be working extremely well in China, to be honest.

They've built entire cities that are completely vacant.

Like building transport infrastructure to nowhere, hmm? And then they build all the other infrastructure around it.[1] Because with such central planning you don’t need to build around and on top of existing infrastructure—you can build like in Sim City.

That vacant “Paris” also turned out to become populated later.

Ha ha they centrally planned a city and didn’t move people into it before it was done... like what you do when building a house. That’s effectively what you are alluding to as absurd.

[1] But by that time the Western journalists might not care anymore whistles

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the quality of what was built was worse than what the commies built in the Eastern Europe. That's quite an achievement!

I grew up in council housing built during this period. It's not exactly premium but it was built fairly well and they sold well when many of them eventually made it onto the private market many decades later. Good sized gardens and I remember the council doing necessary repairs and upgrades throughout my time there. I'm not exactly familiar with buildings from ex-soviet eastern Europe but I'd be surprised if it was a…

This doesn't describe council houses I've seen in London and surroundings (e.g. Milton Keynes/Bletchley).

What I remember: - small rooms - mould - no insulation - in larger buildings gardens, if any, would be only for ground floor flats - in smaller buildings flats would be split over 3 levels, with each level being rather small - often wired entrance to the flats from outdoor gallery/balcony (in larger buildings) - low ceilings (for my liking)

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For residential uses, heating, cooling, and refrigeration are the main uses. Heating and cooling can be offloaded into grid peak availability hours relatively easily with the price serving as a reliable trigger. This assumes proper insulation for the most part, but is viable and using the price as an indicator automatically sets up the right incentives. As for refrigeration, the energy use for that in a private hou…

Heating and cooling can only be offloaded in extremely wellinsulated houses. A lot of the ones in the UK do not make the cut. Even some new EU ones do not. If you try to offload it otherwise you just waste power heating/cooling yourself at wrong hours. A boiler in this setup is a thermal battery. These are good, but space consuming and relatively failure prone and expensive to maintain. Inefficient compared to centra…

Are you arguing for or against offshore wind?

Tackling climate crisis requires All The Above.

Wind, nukes, solar farms, tidal, whatever, by themselves, aren't silver bullets.

We also need heat pumps, renovations (insulation, air sealing), district heating, etc. That's just for housing.

We could also talk all day about industry and agriculture.

As the saying goes: The opportunities are insurmountable!

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the libertarians who like to see government fail so they have a reason to dismantle it?

Not the OP but look at the difference between what governments can do when there is a sense of urgency (i.e it is wartime or one is in recent memory) vs what they do when it's not. My lizard brain interprets this in the following way: Elites in response to external competition or in the presence of existential threat experience strong incentives to make "real" progress. When there's little external competition, leade…

Competition? Like when “old men argue, young men die”?

And real (“real”) progress for whom? Your analysis is completely opaque.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#636
post #568

"These problems are obvious to many British politicians. Leaders in the Conservative and Labour Parties often comment on expensive energy and scarce housing. But their goals haven’t been translated into priorities and policies that lead to growth." I can't find this mentioned anywhere in the article, but the current imbalance of supply and demand and the resulting high prices is quite beneficial for parts of the real…

Why is the answer always more real estate, and not private ownership of housing? If you don’t live in it you can’t have it.

As a former landlord, I would not compete with buyers on a potential rental property. I'd rather pick it up cheap because it is an investment. So the correlation between ownership and prices is not as clear to me, and landlords may provide some market making service. The connection between supply and prices is very clear, however.

Another issue is that historically low mortgage rates pushed up the maximum price of house that people could afford, and when rates went back up the market stalled out rather than price correct. I don't know how to fix that.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#637
post #568

"These problems are obvious to many British politicians. Leaders in the Conservative and Labour Parties often comment on expensive energy and scarce housing. But their goals haven’t been translated into priorities and policies that lead to growth." I can't find this mentioned anywhere in the article, but the current imbalance of supply and demand and the resulting high prices is quite beneficial for parts of the real…

Why is the answer always more real estate, and not private ownership of housing? If you don’t live in it you can’t have it.

Because of the lack of building, 1 in 200 families are homeless?

https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/britains-homelessness-...

Yes, getting rid of private landlords would be great but our housing crisis is far, far bigger than that.

Secondly, having a small amount of rental accommodation is useful. If I switch jobs and move cities then having somewhere to rent while I get on my feet is a good thing. I would agree that it's now gone too far though. Perhaps just having a small amount of government rental locations could solve this.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#638
post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are heating with electricity and cannot use gas storage to make up for the seasons, chemical batteries are nowhere near price effective, or even physically or projected to be available. You can find out how much energy Europe stores in gas fields to get through the winter. You can divide that number by what you think is a reasonable sCOP for your heat pump. That number you can put next to total battery capacity…

Of course burning that gas to generate electricity for use in heat pumps would get you the same heat for half the gas even before you include any wind power (or hydro etc.) That then doubles your storage for gas that you may or may not need to burn depending on the weather. So really the path to fully renewable just goes through a series of win-wins on the journey to fully phase out fossil fuels.

Sure, switching to heat pumps doubles (probably triples) your storage, or, cut the storage energy in the form of gas by 66%. But, I thought we were discussing decarbonzing the storage too. Looking at that amount of energy, (chemical) electrical storage isn't even in the right ballpark yet. And other forms neither.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The are a few more things in the equation. Median age in the UK is ~40 while most immigration is from countries with medians in their 20s. Those families are more likely to have more children especially if they reach a stable and comfortable living situation. So it can be a Ponzi scheme but it can also be an investment.

It is a Ponzi scheme. The Ponzi scheme is that population has to grow forever, which is not sutainable and not possible, and coming to an end globally. So high immigration now is just kicking the ball down the road while destroying your local culture and people in the process.

If this is the reference for the definition of a Ponzi scheme then the pension system in general is a Ponzi scheme by design and immigration is not "turning" it into one like OP said.

But I don't really agree this is the appropriate equivalent at least for the "spirit" of a Ponzi scheme. A pyramid scheme exists only when a pyramid is disguised as something else. When it's designed and presented as an actual pyramid it's not a scheme. In the design of the pension system there's no intention of fraud involved (only lack of education maybe), and the system is constantly and very transparently adjusted to widen the pyramid base and narrow the top (increase retirement age, contributor base, or individual contribution).

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#640
post #624

"These problems are obvious to many British politicians. Leaders in the Conservative and Labour Parties often comment on expensive energy and scarce housing. But their goals haven’t been translated into priorities and policies that lead to growth." I can't find this mentioned anywhere in the article, but the current imbalance of supply and demand and the resulting high prices is quite beneficial for parts of the real…

Have we tried just taxing land?

Set tax bands radiating from the centre of a city. The centre gets a higher rate than the edges?

We get a lot of dead towns because of speculation on land.

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