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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

cbc.ca

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#631

Post by exabrial »

rob74 wrote: post #498
exabrial wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother in law, aviation firefighter, said after a crash you have 15s to egress, that's it. There's not a lot of air in the metal tube you're trapped in, it'll fill with smoke and everyone will be disoriented. It's also a long way to the exits, and the average person in the exit row probably will be in shock and likely not operate the exit door immediately. Absolutely incredible the fireball was put out in the fli…

The standard time for evacuating an aircraft that has to be demonstrated for certification purposes is 90 seconds with only half of the exits usable. It generally helps that the fire is (at least initially) outside the cabin most of the time. But yes, I wouldn't bet on conditions in the plane staying survivable for 90 seconds in all cases.

yikes.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#632

Post by adamanonymous »

amelius wrote: post #623
leetrout wrote: post #449

Clear view from the plane waiting to take off https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1isabt... Which also brings into mind cockpit distractions but its amazing they caught this on video.

Why doesn't every airport have a bunch of automated cameras around every landing/takeoff strip?

I think they do, there was a bunch of footage of the AA collision it just took a little while for it to surface online. People publishing to social media is faster than an investigation

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#633

Post by schnable »

culi wrote: post #620
schnable wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article says one air traffic controller was laid off.

The very first sentence is > The Trump administration has begun firing several hundred Federal Aviation Administration employees, upending staff on a busy air travel weekend and just weeks after a January fatal midair collision at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. I think this comment is disingenuously trying to manipulate people who won't click the link.

You mean comment equating FAA employees with air traffic controllers? Yes.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#634

Post by munk-a »

tomcar288 wrote: post #590
account42 wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you hear how many car crashes there are per moth and how many fatal hiking accidents. You'll never travel again! That is, until you learn how many people pass away in their own home.

Wait until you hear how many people pass away as a result of eating cheeseburgers! Only somewhat kidding here. The number of people that die from heart disease and stroke and diabetes is far far greater than plane crashes or car crashes. Metabolic syndrome is a large constellation of diseases and scientists have discovered that many of them are largely preventable through diet and lifestyle choices!

Cars also contribute to the deaths from heart disease, stroke, and diabetes due to encouraging a sedentary lifestyle and making our locales less walkable... They also have a lot of externalities in the form of tire dust, noise pollution, and other effects.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#635

Post by adamanonymous »

stranded22 wrote: post #459
varjag wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowkey mad at the lady dragging her hand luggage.

Just for a different point of view, my wife is Type 1 Diabetic - no way she’d be leaving her medical stuff. It’s probably not that, but is possible.

No medical condition has higher priority than getting out of a burning plane as fast as possible.

You may not survive a day without insulin, but the people behind you might not survive the next few seconds if they can't get out in time because you were fumbling with a bag

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#636

Post by munk-a »

polynomial wrote: post #624
amelius wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't every airport have a bunch of automated cameras around every landing/takeoff strip?

This seems like a really good question. if not for some random dude they wouldn't have any footage of this crash.

There are a plethora of security cameras covering the takeoff area to monitor for obstacles and unauthorized personnel as well as plenty of cameras covering security fences that likely have partial coverage of the interior area... lastly, there are multiple things recording everything the plane does including in the air traffic controller tower and the plane's black box.

Whether the folks controlling these recordings would publicly release them is debatable (especially as it may be seen as being in bad taste due to the trauma these folks experienced and especially especially if anyone had died or ends up dying from injuries sustained).

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#637

Post by carabiner »

WalterBright wrote: post #243
tiahura wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

757 stabilizer trim system Have you shared your thoughts on MCAS? I feel like there are a lot of potential lessons that got missed for all the noise.

I've probably posted a hundred messages here on MCAS! Most were downvoted to hell. The actual 737 pilots I talked to agreed with me, nobody else did. Classic Gell-Mann Effect. The only truthful account of the crashes is the official NTSB report. The 737 is an electric drive, with a manual backup. The 757 is a scaled down version of the 747's dual hydraulic drive, no manual backup. More efficient wings and engines obs…

Oh I was an aeronautical engineer (BS, MS aerospace engineering, concentration in fluid mechanics) for 8 years. Any pithy explanation of aircraft flight/engineering concepts that I post gets downvoted or ignored. Better yet, sometimes a java programmer tries to mansplain it to me in a worse way.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#638

Post by daemonologist »

niceice wrote: post #601
daedrdev wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per mine and per hour flying is still much safer than driving

Anyone know the math on how many crashes it would take until this would equalize?

To have an equivalent fatality rate per passenger-mile, you'd need about 7,500 commercial aviation fatalities in the US per year (two and a half 9/11s, ~60 fully loaded 737s).

Per hour would be lower of course, maybe 1/10th as many just judging by "cruise speed." I couldn't find good hour-wise data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#640

Post by mthoms »

lolc wrote: post #576
throw0101c wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just for a different point of view, my wife is Type 1 Diabetic - no way she’d be leaving her medical stuff. Perhaps a fanny pack would be a better idea: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_pack

A fanny pack is actually where my reserve insulin is at all times. And the pack is attached to me most of the time. There's also some sugar in there too. People with T1 either have insulin pumps attached, or long-lasting insulin injected. They are not going to keel over from lack of insulin on most days, even if their pack is gone. Except if the pump stopped working hours ago, or they forgot to inject. Then they may…

I flew out of Toronto Pearson the day before this crash (after moving my flight a day forward because of the storms :-/ ), and noticed that flight attendants require passengers to remove any cross body fanny-pack type bags during takeoff and landing. I'm not sure if this applies to wearing it on the waist or not. I would imagine not.

This might not be new or exclusive to Canada - it's just the first I've noticed it.

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