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Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

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Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#631

Post by NoGravitas »

csa wrote: post #556
GrantMoyer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I’m not super happy about the extreme views on race, sex and religion that are going through the school system. Maybe I'm living under a rock; what extreme views are going through the school system?

> Maybe I'm living under a rock; what extreme views are going through the school system? Not op and not taking a stance on any of these here, but: 1. Critical race theory (CRT) 2. Gender fluidity 3. Endorsement and use of Christianity/Bible in public schools These are all hot-button issues in education today, at least in some states and districts.

No one is learning about Critical Race Theory anywhere other than law school (or possibly undergraduate sociology classes that pre-law students would be likely to take). It's a heterodox thread in legal scholarship. Whatever you think primary schoolers are learning about race, it's not Critical Race Theory.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#632

Post by windexh8er »

smogcutter wrote: post #273
UltraSane wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Expulsion works." There really seems to be two kinds of public schools. One is willing to expel students who are violent and disruptive and this allows the students who are willing and able to learn to do so. The other refuses to expel violent and disruptive students and they make it nearly impossible for the willing and motivated students to actually learn.

There are some rotten incentives at work here, as well as constraints that aren’t obvious from a parent or student’s point of view. For example, CA schools have to publish statistics on suspensions and expulsions. So there’s an incentive for administrators to minimize them. In practice, this means that expelling a student (short of some extreme situations) is a lengthy process of ass-covering. Even when administrator…

> The “violent and disruptive” student is also a child with a right to an education. And for what it’s worth, usually a child in crisis. For school staff, your role as an adult is to teach the child to participate in society with whatever limited influence you have. As a parent or classmate, of course, you have no reason to give a shit about some asshole kid, but the teacher has to.

This is where I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Education is not a right if you can't comply with simple rules. I'd also like to see where you're correlating "violent and disruptive" with a "child in crisis". I'm not saying it's not there, but I am saying I don't believe those two components are exclusive.

These games of "what if" and "what is" must be fun for some people - because they seem to be played quite often. Rules are rules, they can be cut and dry - even in this case. The excuses are played out, the fallback on so many "disorders" is rampant. Either society is essentially fucked, or people are abusing the exceptions. I do agree, there should be some exceptions, but those should be few and far between to avoid slipping through the cracks.

Finally, the implication that a teacher "has to" give a shit has got to be the worst idea Americans have embraced. No, they don't. If my kid was asshole in school - I would handle the situation and apologize. Parents who go at districts for not "giving a shit" about their kid when their kid has been taught there are no repercussions by their parents don't have a right to anything in my opinion.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#633

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #403
dijit wrote: post #389

OK I guess I’m going to go against the deluge of comments here; And give an appreciable reason instead of denigrating those who might choose this. The context, though, I am British. I grew up in Britain. I went to British school. I can’t speak universally about my experience, (even within all of Britain), because it’s my experience which is in one small area of the country. However, school, for me, was by far the sin…

> forced internment for children Where I live (U.S.), new schools are literally built like prisons... each wing is laid out from a central "observation area" for the administrators. It's just a panopticon design modeled after penitentiaries. I was with my family in our new local high school. My dad and I were the only two who noticed the layout.

There's security checkpoints and police officers in bulletproof vests and carrying guns as well in some cases, because what if a school shooter shows up? Of course, when one does show up a hundred militarized police will show up and... do nothing, because what will the union do if one gets shot?

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#634

Post by aliasxneo »

UltraSane wrote: post #304
aliasxneo wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way this is written seems to imply that religious people don't have similar (or the same) reasons as secular people.

I suppose from their perspective they do but from my perspective they are just going to raise scientifically ignorant people. I was raised young earth creationist Lutheran and understand this world quite well.

So you're suggesting that religious people who home school have some sort of intrinsic characteristic that causes them to raise scientifically ignorant people? It just seems a bit far-fetched to me for someone who claims to be pro-science, especially given the number of respected religious scientists in the world.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#636

Post by madcaptenor »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #587
rgblambda wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were problems with the grammar school system as well. They were created to provide a pathway to the middle class for bright children from working class families. But the entrance exam was heavily biased in favour of children from middle class backgrounds. Famously the first 11+ tests had questions like "Name the various types of servants in a household and what they do". In later years, getting out of school tu…

> But the entrance exam was heavily biased in favour of children from middle class backgrounds. > Famously the first 11+ tests had questions like "Name the various types of servants in a household and what they do". That doesn't sound like a question a middle class kid would know anything about - not unless your definition of "middle class" is far different from mine.

British "middle class" is a higher class than US "middle class", and servants were relatively cheaper back then.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#637

Post by NoGravitas »

23B1 wrote: post #228
aappleby wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever heard "big powerful unions" and "teachers" in the same sentence before.

The NEA is the largest union in the United States.

But also not functionally a union. Teachers are actually represented by their state affiliate, and whether or not they can collectively bargain (the sine qua non of being a union) varies from state to state. Personally, I've lived in several states, but none in which the state Education Association was able to collectively bargain for its members.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#638

Post by smallmancontrov »

zozbot234 wrote: post #524
wccrawford wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a school that had a lot of good teachers, and I learned a lot from them. But when it came to bullies, the school was just as you described. Worse, the punishment for being in a fight was the same whether you started it or you were just beaten up. If you made the fight get noticed, you got punished. It was quite clear that they had no interest in stopping the fights, just in making sure they didn't get repor…

> Worse, the punishment for being in a fight was the same whether you started it or you were just beaten up. If you made the fight get noticed, you got punished. I'm not saying that this is anything close to optimal , but it should be noted that under this system (which is reminiscent of the way ancient Chinese criminal law worked, per Legal Systems Very Different from Ours [0]) people who get beat up should still re…

> you'll also build a solid reputation for not letting things slide

This is a terrible idea that was obviously flown as a butt-covering excuse by administrators who, like the school administrators, have discovered that it is much easier to fight reporting of crime than it is to fight crime.

I am deeply disappointed to see it treated as some sort of deep truth, when in fact it is a shallow lie that anyone with the slightest understanding of bureaucracy ought to have seen through in no time at all.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#639

Post by NoGravitas »

dartharva wrote: post #267

The moment I read the title I knew exactly how the comment section was going to look like. I was not disappointed. I wonder if typical HNers ever get aware of what a spectacle they make of themselves and their self-important narcissistic tomfoolery.

Yeah, big "I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people" vibes, as expected.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#640

Post by knicholes »

f1shy wrote: post #484
dijit wrote: post #389

OK I guess I’m going to go against the deluge of comments here; And give an appreciable reason instead of denigrating those who might choose this. The context, though, I am British. I grew up in Britain. I went to British school. I can’t speak universally about my experience, (even within all of Britain), because it’s my experience which is in one small area of the country. However, school, for me, was by far the sin…

This is the first comment in the page, the first I read, and I can also say, I learned nothing (if anything lies, bad science and nonsense) in school. Coming from a very different country, lived in many others I know is not better in those places. I do not have time to really teach my kids, but I will be all the way by their side, as they go through the brain washing machine of school. I will send them to the school…

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