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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#631

Post by Workaccount2 »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #535
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

As a European I have to ask the very same questions about US apps and European interests. Even though I personally do not harbour strong suspicions towards the US, it's not a given that the US will always act favourably towards the EU, Europe as a whole, or any one particular EU country in the future. Especially in light of recent elections.

Joe Biden cannot call up facebook and tell them to show everyone on Instagram ponies tomorrow.

However, if Xi Jinping calls up Bytedance and tells them to show everyone ponies tomorrow, your tiktok feed will infact be all ponies tomorrow.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#632

Post by Workaccount2 »

tw1984 wrote: post #505
joe200 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot. But in US you have elections every 4 years wheres in Russia or China both Putin and Xi are "elected" for their lifetime. Does it tell you anything ?

> But in US you have elections every 4 years That is why populism is always the winner. I don't like Xi, I won't support anyone to be in power for life. That being said, I'd pick Xi over losers and criminals like Trump at any day.

Xi is just Trump without the idiocy.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#633

Post by baranul »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #535
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

As a European I have to ask the very same questions about US apps and European interests. Even though I personally do not harbour strong suspicions towards the US, it's not a given that the US will always act favourably towards the EU, Europe as a whole, or any one particular EU country in the future. Especially in light of recent elections.

Good observation and argument. US politicians might be in for a rude surprise, if this effort to ban boomerangs on them, in the form of other countries making the same arguments and wanting to ban popular American made and controlled software.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#634

Post by chvid »

hnfong wrote: post #480
chvid wrote: post #316

My guess is that TikTok is about to get the Huawei treatment. Like it happened to Huawei, the US State Department will campaign against it in various foreign countries and seek a similar ban. And like it happened to Meng Wanzhou, the US will use its legal system to pursue key figures in ByteDance, many of whom reside in Singapore, a country which has an extradition treaty with the US. (If you think I am exaggerating,…

Maybe. Meng Wanzhou got caught because she was in Canada, and she was (apparently) a Chinese national. But I cannot imagine Singapore just handing over their own nationals to the US as a political prisoner...

Founder Zhang Yiming lives in Singapore today.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#635

Post by Retric »

Cookingboy wrote: post #574
Retric wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve read it in a few places ex: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-... Not sure how creditable their research is, but I’d place it above random news articles.

There research is not credible because their only "evidence" is that when using certain keywords, Instagram and YT returned more "anti-China" content than TikTok. So instead of arguing the U.S. social media has an anti-China bias, they argued that it's the evidence of TikTok being more pro-China. Using American social media as the control group for neutrality on China is absolutely insane. The most likely cause is th…

The damming bits were 100% on Ticktock, no need for comparison.

On TickTock, views to likes ratio for anti China content was 87% lower despite higher upvotes on TickTock anti China content. Read page 4 suppression on anti China content.

That alone shows the algorithmic alone isn’t selecting results and they are instead engaging in propaganda. The credibility question in my mind is in regards to how they are classifying videos and other bits you don’t see, but that’s a deeper question than the methodology.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#636

Post by aziaziazi »

joe200 wrote: post #599
pcthrowaway wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And both parties are almost exactly the same with foreign policy. The "two-party system" in the U.S. is perhaps broken beyond repair, and presents an illusion of choice in many ways rather than an actual choice.

I was referring to "how could you be sure that American made LLMs are not altered in a way to maximize US interests at the costs of everyone else's." But your answer intelligently redirecs focus to different topic. Is it on purpose ?

May you precise your thoughts? I genuinely didn’t get the supposedly evident message before “Does it tell you anything ?”

The bipartisan system in the US show that free and regular elections isn’t enough to prevent some dictatorship drawbacks, like when policies are made to serve a party and not the population interest. They don’t often coincide.

To come back to LLM that could be an alteration to favor one party or another, or even both by occulting what people don’t like in the party system.

At the end it might be "good for US” with US as an organisation which want to preserve itself. But not "good for US” as US a group of citizen wanting a system that serve their interest.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#637

Post by tw1984 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #632
tw1984 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in US you have elections every 4 years That is why populism is always the winner. I don't like Xi, I won't support anyone to be in power for life. That being said, I'd pick Xi over losers and criminals like Trump at any day.

Xi is just Trump without the idiocy.

Chinese national living in China, I am openly anti-CCP, I don't like Xi. I can write a thesis on this, but let's just cut to the bones -

12 years in power, Xi led China to become the largest industrialised nation on earth with its industrial output larger than the G7 combined, Xi led China to be in leading roles in ALL emerging sectors, e.g. mobile internet, renewable energy, Evs, AI etc when the entire EU and Japan just gave up.

What that 6 times bankruptcy Trump managed to achieve? Trump should be nice to Xi, as Xi is the only statesman of Trump's time, Trump is just a reality show host getting into a renewed season of his show.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#638

Post by tchalla »

joe200 wrote: post #494
tw1984 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is the exact same question being asked around the global - how could you be sure that American made LLMs are not altered in a way to maximize US interests at the costs of everyone else's.

You cannot. But in US you have elections every 4 years wheres in Russia or China both Putin and Xi are "elected" for their lifetime. Does it tell you anything ?

The world doesn’t elect US presidents. We are referring to the relationship of non-US citizen to US elected officials. The intra US selection of officials doesn’t matter in this context of who sits on a higher moral horse.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#639

Post by JeremyNT »

chvid wrote: post #316

My guess is that TikTok is about to get the Huawei treatment. Like it happened to Huawei, the US State Department will campaign against it in various foreign countries and seek a similar ban. And like it happened to Meng Wanzhou, the US will use its legal system to pursue key figures in ByteDance, many of whom reside in Singapore, a country which has an extradition treaty with the US. (If you think I am exaggerating,…

It's not in the US strategic interests for China to control the most popular social media (aka propaganda) site, so from a realpolitik perspective this makes a ton of sense. Reliance on a foreign power for things that are so prevalent is a risk, and it's not like the US is incapable on a technical level of producing a TikTok alternative - it's "only" popular because of network effects.

FWIW I mostly agree that your take seemed to be a likely outcome if Harris had been elected, but I literally have no idea what the new administration will do.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#640

Post by aziaziazi »

Zak wrote: post #601
flkenosad wrote: post #459

I really hate how people are arguing that it should be banned because of the content being inappropriate in one way or another when the content you see is based on how you interact with the app. We don't all see the same stuff. So yeah China may have more educational content but that's probably just becuase the people there are interested in that stuff. When I travel to the mountains, I get more outdoorsy/hiking vide…

Engagement driven algorithms do not necessarily show what users are consciously interested in, but what they subconsciously can't turn away from. You are probably a well-regulated, internet-savvy adult who easily recognizes engagement bait and knows to swipe away form it quickly to train the algorithm to stop showing it to you. People arguing for a ban are probably concerned about how it affects those who are not so…

Thanks for sharing that article.

> the distinctions largely owe to stiff regulations in China centered on youth social media use and political dissent.

> The differences between the two apps highlight a comparatively permissive legal environment for social media in the U.S., protecting free expression but also leaving some users -- especially young ones -- vulnerable to addictive behavior, the experts said.

> That same year, Douyin imposed a 40-minute daily limit for users under 14. Last year, Chinese regulators introduced a rule that would limit children under age 18 to two hours of smartphone screen time each day.

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