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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#631

Post by esarbe »

dotancohen wrote: post #618
esarbe wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy; nations that attack other nations unprovoked are "evil" (at fault). Ukraine has never infringed on Russia's sovereignty or territorial integrity before it was attacked. Therefor this war is entirely Russia's fault. The world is mostly shades of gray. But this case it black and white.

[flagged]

Russia's "concerns" are not valid.

It's not even that there was absolutely no active process of joining NATO when Russia attacked Ukraine in February 2014 and started all this. No; if Ukraine wants to join NATO, that's entirely Ukraine's decision. Russia has no say in it. Ukraine is sovereign and can join any military alliance it wants. Just as Russia is free to do so.

No nation has extra-territorial security interests that it needs to defend by attacking a neutral, peaceful and friendly neighbor.

You have been fooled into defending imperialism. Or worse; you're consciously defending imperialism.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#632

Post by vasco »

peutetre wrote: post #576
vasco wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I lived in a world where it's so easy to know who is good and who is evil and to pinpoint them so well.

You do. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not an ambiguous war. Russia is plainly in the wrong.

I don't know what goes on to comment. I'm not there and I don't fool myself into thinking that I know geopolitics just because I read some articles. My comment was replying to someone who said the Russians are the war thirsty people of the world. It's a bit rich because, there's a bunch of other ongoing wars in the world and people aren't just "bad" or "good"

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#633

Post by [deleted] »

Etheryte wrote: post #242
staplung wrote: post #63

It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figur…

This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable. In other words, sabotage. There's no point in trying to color any of this with rose tinted glasses when it's clear who's done it and why.

[deleted]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#634

Post by MichaelZuo »

echoangle wrote: post #441
MichaelZuo wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12.1 nm offshore is not any country, which is the point…The laws of zero countries matter, and only certain multilateral agreements matter, at least on paper.

It’s still a de jure crime on the ship itself, because the laws of the flag country apply there. If the captain of the ship intentionally damaged something in international waters, he still committed a (de jure, which was the question) crime.

No? Why would the laws of the flag country matter for an anchor slowly drifting to the seabed detached from a vessel several km away?

Edit: I’m pretty sure most, if not all, such countries don’t even ascribe any legal status to wrecked and sunken lifeboats, let alone anchors. Probably most countries don’t even have a formal penalty, of any kind, for lifeboats detached and sunken, for any reason, for anyone on the ship.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#635

Post by dheera »

staplung wrote: post #63

It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figur…

> deliberately drag an anchor right over the cables

Can we not make the cables resistant to this? Like if someone drags an anchor over a cable, it instantly locates the break based on time-of-flight over the cable and instantly dispatches a drone from the nearest shoreline to spray nasty sticky shit all over the ship?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#636

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

dotancohen wrote: post #618
esarbe wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy; nations that attack other nations unprovoked are "evil" (at fault). Ukraine has never infringed on Russia's sovereignty or territorial integrity before it was attacked. Therefor this war is entirely Russia's fault. The world is mostly shades of gray. But this case it black and white.

[flagged]

Why do they seem valid?

How long has NATO been on russia's border? This is an important question. Please try to answer it.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#637

Post by db48x »

dotancohen wrote: post #618
esarbe wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy; nations that attack other nations unprovoked are "evil" (at fault). Ukraine has never infringed on Russia's sovereignty or territorial integrity before it was attacked. Therefor this war is entirely Russia's fault. The world is mostly shades of gray. But this case it black and white.

[flagged]

The whole idea that NATO is a threat to Russia is ridiculous. Read Article 1 again. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.ht...>

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#638

Post by josefresco »

fuoqi wrote: post #138
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet NATO/EU just looks weak and pathetic in the process Really? Russia, with the 6th largest army in the world, had to pull in Iran and Pyongyang to not get invaded by the 13th largest [1][2]. Moscow is being a nuisance. That doesn't make NATO or Europe look weak, it makes Russia look pathetic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/world/europe/uk…

13th largest backed by the whole NATO and other US-aligned countries. They send almost everything they can outside of nuclear weapons, the most cutting edge military tech, and people (well, outside of a limited contingent of "advisors"). Let's be honest, without this backing the war would've ended in the first month as was drafted in Istanbul.

> They send almost everything they can outside of nuclear weapons

Oh come on now, you know this isn't true. The US and it's allies have a mountain of military tech they haven't sent for a variety of good and bad reasons. Ukraine regularly begs for more and better weapons, if they were "sent almost everything" would they be begging for more?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#639

Post by KptMarchewa »

trhway wrote: post #629
KptMarchewa wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It takes tanks half-a-day to cross the Baltic states to reach the sea. And what happens if they actually go for that distance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Voznesensk

yes, due to geography, success at Voznesensk basically saved Odessa and the rest of the unoccupied South. That is the point - if Russia took Odessa back then it would basically be game-over. I don't see such strategic points like Voznesensk in the Baltic states though.

There is vast difference between just driving somewhere and actually controlling it. Russia learned that in first month of the invasion. If they weren't stopped at Voznesensk, they would be stopped somewhere else - there was singular BTG driving somewhere deep into hostile territory.

Another example of BTG driving deep and getting decimated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g68MmLrGvM

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#640

Post by meiraleal »

jiggawatts wrote: post #189
meiraleal wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Lucky Russia to have the strength to make their enemies fear them. Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. And then imposed its own idea of peace that involves tanks rolling through Budapest and soldiers executing students and poets. Tiananmen square shocked the world, but that kind of behaviour was already familiar to Eastern Europeans. It was the same old song, differen…

> Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly.

The same can be said of the French, English and Germans, that only stop destroying themselves after they united to fight Russia (which ironically saved the first 2 against the last one otherwise they would not even exist as sovereign states anymore).

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