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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

631–640 of 1001 posts

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#631

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

Not sure how risky this really is for the Union. Their software engineers are taking a pay cut for the prestige of working for the most influential newspaper on earth. When your BATNA is getting a 50% pay bump somewhere else then strike away. God forbid if the servers crash while reporting on the second hand recount in Georgia next month.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find it reasonable. THe union, and I, do not find a RTO announcement in June (or anytime really) to be a reasonable request. So yes, the article justified the strike. You just don't think the justification is reasonable.

You don’t think it’s reasonable to tell your employees that as a condition of employment they have to be at a specific location at specific times?

> You don’t think it’s reasonable to tell your employees that as a condition of employment they have to be at a specific location at specific times?

You think it's reasonable to hire someone remotely, then later forcibly relocate them to another, more expensive city, with no compensation? Because that's what's happened here.

In jurisdictions with stronger labor laws, that is not only not reasonable, but outright illegal (constructive termination).

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello - former NYT employee here, who would have been part of the Guild union if I worked there still. The story is written by a reporter, Katie Robertson, who is also part of their own union (Times Guild). The Times has been pretty good at covering itself imho.

> former NYT employee here > The Times has been pretty good and covering itself imho. This is silly. It's like the people who say that the Bible is true because the Bible says the Bible is true.

I don't get this read, or your analogy really. Seems more like "former bible editor here; the author of the psalm about bible editor unions is also a member of a bible editor's union, so is probably not super anti-union. They're unlikely to be just presenting the pope's narrative."

Like I said, I don't get your analogy.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#634
post #113

> more than 600 software developers Does anyone have a sense for how this breaks down? I would never have guessed so many full-time employees were necessary to maintain a CMS.

Only in tech do people get so aggravated by employee count.

Legacy companies have armies of consultants building pretty decks with little end-product to show for it. Never questioned. Every industry has a certain amount of slack built in. Large institutions (big Hollywood, govt, defense, medical services) have oodles of bureaucracy. Tech looks like a paradise in comparison. Yes, tech workers should seek to be more efficient. But, when viewed from comparative lens, tech is in the top tier of efficient industries.

Personally, I am not sold on tech unions. But, tech workers have uniquely low leverage within their profession. Tech lacks paid overtime or paid on-calls. Engineers are routinely expected to work evenings for meetings with off-shore teams. There is limited mobility because unlike doctors or lawyers/ engineers/ hard-tech engineers.... SWEs are frequently managed by non-SWEs. The manner in which remote work was revoked is a canary for the lack of lobbying power among tech workers.

Yes, tech workers are paid upper-middle class wages. But, the quality of life afforded by the profession has gone for a plunge since the 2022 layoffs. Companies have revoked all the pros of covid (flexible & remote work replaced with mandatory in office days and 9-5 hours). But, they've kept all the negatives of covid (work never ends, notification on all devices, global teams, smaller offices, fewer in-office perks). It's like companies want to have their cake and eat it too.

To that end, I empathize with any tech coalition that wants to lobby for better 'worker rights'. Union strikes may be a suboptimal way of doing this. But, it's better than nothing.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

Yeah the media have been salivating for this week for months now. Exactly why I'm not planning to read or watch any news this week. I'll vote tomorrow. That's what I can do. All the rest of it is out of my hands and I'm not going to spend any of my time or mental energy engaging in the manufactured drama sure to come. Like my barber said at my last haircut: the only sure thing about this election is that an idiot wil…

Exactly why I'm not planning to read or watch any news this week.

I see we share the same strategy. My new policy is that I shut the news off once the polls open on election day and don't turn it back on until the following morning. Over the course of my life, I'll accrue enough saved hours to have achieved something minor, yet meaningful.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

No, I want management to develop a system to determine who is low-performing, document when those workers don't meet the standards of performance, and reference those documents when they fire someone. It's just asking for due process.

Hello from Europe. Tried that, didn't work.

It's incredibly hard to quantify "low-performing" for white-collar workers, because any measure is either easily gamed, actually creates roadblocks and bad incentives, or both.

Now companies are wary of hiring people because it's harder to fire.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

No, I want management to develop a system to determine who is low-performing, document when those workers don't meet the standards of performance, and reference those documents when they fire someone. It's just asking for due process.

> No, I want management to develop a system to determine who is low-performing

The system here is going to be something like LoC or tickets answered, things that are objective and easy to measure. We know these don't reflect real productivity, but because they are objective, that's what will be used in promotion and firing decisions. Anything subjective, even if it's the opinions of peers or experts, will be contestable in due process hearings, creating risk for the employer, and will be deemphasized or eliminated. One reason why the US government and European software companies are relatively uncompetitive in hiring is because of the difficulties created by due process in firing bad employees and promoting good ones.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#638

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. Can we get a definitive list of weeks where workers’ rights are officially less important than $world_event? That way we can schedule our requests appropriately. We don’t want to inconvenience anyone.

All people who don't care say "can you please go over there, in the corner, where I can't see you, so you can protest and I can appropriately ignore you."

The point of a protest is to annoy you. Annoy you enough into action.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#639
post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

Most of the anti-union tech workers I've encountered over my career have vastly overestimated their abilities and value to the workforce. Their willingness to suffer abuse from employers (while taking pride in their refusal to establish boundaries) makes working conditions worse for all of us.

The most aggressive I've seen advocating against unions are not ICs anymore and often are a part of management/capital.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring consistently high performing employees is not a solved problem. Making it hard to fire low performers results in low performing teams, and there are no reliable solutions to this.

One wonders if it is not solved simply because of at will employlemt? Almost like firms are lazy, and unwilling to go beyond the bare minumum required by law.

> One wonders if it is not solved simply because of at will employlemt?

It's also not a solved problem in countries where at-will employment is not the norm.

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