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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#631

Post by 15155 »

systemtest wrote: post #376
sensanaty wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're low paying because (often illegal) immigrants from other countries either A) are happy to put up with what is a luxurious salary for back home, but barely liveable locally Or B) don't have a choice once they're in, since they practically become indentured servants In the Netherlands, no dutchie wants to work construction for example, because immigrants from Eastern Europe often take under-the-table deals wher…

Both Dutch natives and EU-migrants are to be paid minimum wage, however it is a common trick when hiring migrants to charge them a ridiculous amount of rent for very sub-par accommodation nearby the jobsite. For example €600/month for a bunk-bed in a room with eight others. That is a way many temp agencies earn extra from migrants.

Could it be possible that this bunk bed is then made a required (verbal - nobody put it in writing, of course) condition of employment?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#632

Post by refurb »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #596
refurb wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an article from 7 years ago? Don't you think it makes more sense to look at Trump's 2024 platform? https://rncplatform.donaldjtrump.com/ The only statement on legal immigration: "Republicans will prioritize Merit-based immigration, ensuring those admitted to our Country contribute positively to our Society and Economy, and never become a drain on Public Resources."

The amount of room they give to interpret that vague statement however they want could fit an aircraft carrier. Their actual policy position is in their project 2025 materials and it curtails legal immigration pretty significantly along similar lines that trump attempted to tread in his first presidency.

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#633

Post by antisthenes »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #593
mongol wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Economists say every immigrant is a net economic positive to the nation. This can only be true if they sustain themselves on their own work. An immigrant that does not work and only lives on subsidies can hardly be called a net positive.

This is not behavior exclusive to immigrants though. Either way the welfare state is not very strong in the US. There are 75,000 homeless people in LA county for example.

There's an enormous welfare state in the US through what is essentially jobs programs.

Health insurance companies, for example, are a negative drain on society, yet they employ hundreds of thousands of workers, in what can only be explained as a make-work program for pointless bureaucracy.

Lots of this in the DOD as well. And the homeless program administrators, which you mentioned.

It's just not explicit welfare to the poorest of the poor and there are a few implicit steps, because otherwise it looks bad.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#634

Post by jollofricepeas »

gottorf wrote: post #201
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

In the US and Canada:

All mass influxes of immigrant communities will have some crime element initially due to poverty and discrimination.

This is normal and should be expected.

It’s a part of the integration process over initial generations.

For the US, you can trace the phenomena to the influx of Irish Catholics in the early 1800s and from there to…

Eastern European Jews, Italians, Armenians, Russians, Cubans, Chinese, Indians, Puerto-Ricans, Dominicans, Central Americans, Nigerians, Somalians and other immigrant communities.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#635

Post by wwtrv »

noduerme wrote: post #322
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept.

Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with).

It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 80% demagoguery and 20% substance.

> Why is it that economic migrants do, after a few generations, become successfully integrated in America, while they tend not to in Europe?

Possible different population samples that don't overlap as much? By and large (unless you're crossing the Mexican border I guess...) immigrating to the US has been significantly harder than to the EU even if you're educated/relatively high skilled. The US can afford to be much more picky.

> One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault?

There are 2x more Jews in France than before WW2? Guess from where most of the threats/attacks towards them are coming? (hint: not the host society).

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#636

Post by noduerme »

hansworst wrote: post #621
noduerme wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your negative version of the point: >> if you don't accept a countries values, you should not be allowed to move there But in the positive version, I think in America it is much easier to integrate if you do accept American values than it is in some European countries. And this is because, as you alluded, the only thing that makes America a unified country is a social agreement to certain shared values l…

I think it’s true that people in Europe feel that welfare is part of the problem here. In the Netherlands for example, one of the main right wing talking point is that refugees are given free social housing which could have gone to locals that are often on waiting lists for years. In America on the other hand, land was forcibly taken from the natives by colonists centuries ago. Now, if you’re looking to move to the U…

Er... speaking as a liberal American, this is a wild oversimplification. Housing is not a zero-sum resource. For one thing, to be a bit cheeky, when the white settlers stole the land from the Indians there was absolutely no housing at all. When my grandparents arrived in the US in the 1920s they lived in a tenement with one bathroom per floor. My grandfather saved his money as a tailor and a bartender and eventually built modern apartment buildings. If you harness the ingenuity and resourcefulness of immigrants they will build!

This is why I think welfare states in Europe are on the wrong path toward trying to integrate foreign populations, not because it takes resources away from native Europeans (the demand side) but because it chokes off the supply side of what immigrants should expect to need to add and contribute to the society.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#637

Post by timschmidt »

rangestransform wrote: post #629
timschmidt wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you seen what the cartel does in Mexico? The ones the DEA has partnered with[0], arms[1], and enables through backward drug policy[2]? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal 2: https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-...

Well prescreening immigrants lets us avoid dealing with the consequences of our actions, so why not

Poe's law strikes again. I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not. I think the consequences of our actions will find us one way or another regardless of immigration policy. That's not an argument against screening, but for policy reform.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#638

Post by Laaas »

hansworst wrote: post #621
noduerme wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your negative version of the point: >> if you don't accept a countries values, you should not be allowed to move there But in the positive version, I think in America it is much easier to integrate if you do accept American values than it is in some European countries. And this is because, as you alluded, the only thing that makes America a unified country is a social agreement to certain shared values l…

I think it’s true that people in Europe feel that welfare is part of the problem here. In the Netherlands for example, one of the main right wing talking point is that refugees are given free social housing which could have gone to locals that are often on waiting lists for years. In America on the other hand, land was forcibly taken from the natives by colonists centuries ago. Now, if you’re looking to move to the U…

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#639

Post by init »

wwtrv wrote: post #635
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

> Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with).

If you live in Sweden then you will also know that the state puts refugees in the same areas (Rinkeby, Vivalla, Tensta, etc ...). These areas are then labeled as unsafe because of a slightly elevated crime rate and because they're labeled unsafe, swedes start moving out and quality of services and house prices drop and the downward spiral continues until the area becomes a ghetto even though they're usually not that bad.

Although SFI exists to teach Swedish to immigrants, the quality of the teaching is not great in most schools.

That's where the integration effort stops.

Even professionals who move to Sweden for work have a hard time integrating in Swedish society. That's how you end up with people living in upscale parts of Stockholm for 10+ years and can barely form a sentence in Sweden.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#640

Post by ponector »

mrybczyn wrote: post #271
ponector wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some are unable, other groups are successfully integrating. Like Ukrainian refugees into neighboring European countries, especially Poland.

Ukrainians integrating into Polish culture is similar to the East and West German unification post wall, only more complicated by a few extra generations...

Did western and eastern Germans had different languages? Different alfabet? Different religion?

Better comparison is to protestant Germans with Catholic French people.

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