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Why are most sofas so bad?

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Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#631

Post by ToucanLoucan »

noduerme wrote: post #619
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cynical ass assumes it's because they know goddamn well no one under 60 years old has $4,000 to spend on a properly made sofa, irrespective of desire or taste. I make six figures and I certainly don't. My furniture is all cheap particle board shit because I can't afford anything nicer because I'm spending all my money on a mortgage, food, gas, and student loans. I don't think it's a matter so much of nobody wantin…

You say it yourself. Why spend $7k on couches over a lifetime when you can spend $4k on one that lasts forever? If you can only scrape together $1k a year for a new piece of garbage, maybe you should sit on milk crates til you can scrape together $4k. Maybe the fact that no one thinks this way anymore explains why everyone complains their six-figure income is constantly eaten up by replacing cheap shit.

Hear me out: what if we reversed the various societal changes made since the Reagan era so people make enough money to afford the things they need and want like every generation before mine did, instead of just normalizing this notion that you need to eat shit for years on end so you can have the privilege of nice things?

And that would have knock on effects for huge societal issues like climate change. Imagine how much cheap shit wouldn't need to be made if so many people weren't deliberately kept on the edge of poverty so as to foster consumption practices that make stock prices go up?

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#632

Post by duffyjp »

derefr wrote: post #588
lostlogin wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Particleboard is absolutely useless, MDF is mostly useless except using as a guaranteed flat surface on top of something to support it Unless there is a drop of moisture, then you throw it all away. It’s so depressingly wasteful.

...which means MDF is fine if it's entirely clad in a few mm of something more water-resistant, with the MDF just serving as structural infill. (This is how most kitchen cabinetry is made. And they put up with the steam from a pot boiling below them just fine.)

Our kitchen countertops are MDF covered in some sort of laminate. The laminate is great, but the MDF is swelling over our dishwasher and looks hideous. I'd be careful near moisture even if it's covered.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#633

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

ieee2 wrote: post #582
lowlevel wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree that new is very often worse than old. I've had to return 3 new iPhones in a row for manufacturing defects and out of box software errors. A TV lasts me maybe 4 years before it's 'broken' and needs to be replaced.' Home appliance longevity is laughable now.. (especially Samsung, my gosh.) I've purchased 5 new cars over the past 15 years or so, only one of which didn't have serious problems from new that…

My experience: Our last two washer lasted for 20 years each. We have only third one now and first one did not break :) I have bought many (6) smartphones and non has broken during my usage and also after I passed them to others. We have 4th TV at home and each one was fully working when we replaced it after ~ 10 years. Current one (Sony), our first LCD is from 2012 and works perfectly (with just new set top box). I h…

> Our last two washer lasted for 20 years each.

We quit repairing washers when we bought a 20yo Whirlpool. Same story for dryer except it's a 1988 Maytag.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#634

Post by codemac »

noduerme wrote: post #619
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cynical ass assumes it's because they know goddamn well no one under 60 years old has $4,000 to spend on a properly made sofa, irrespective of desire or taste. I make six figures and I certainly don't. My furniture is all cheap particle board shit because I can't afford anything nicer because I'm spending all my money on a mortgage, food, gas, and student loans. I don't think it's a matter so much of nobody wantin…

You say it yourself. Why spend $7k on couches over a lifetime when you can spend $4k on one that lasts forever? If you can only scrape together $1k a year for a new piece of garbage, maybe you should sit on milk crates til you can scrape together $4k. Maybe the fact that no one thinks this way anymore explains why everyone complains their six-figure income is constantly eaten up by replacing cheap shit.

There's probably a financial argument here related to the same money invested, but we all know folks aren't investing in the difference - they're buying more and other junk.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#635

Post by boringuser2 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #449
boringuser2 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of meh furniture that uses steel will last, too.

I like steel in furniture, especially for larger items like bookshelves - you get the level of rigidity that you can only get from very expensive and massive chunks of hardwood. Also it’s light, and makes moving much easier

Worst case scenario it bends (this takes a lot of abuse) rather than snaps like plywood.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#636

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

arbitrage wrote: post #618
zac23or wrote: post #530

Everything is bad these days, not just the sofas. 1. The new switches I bought broke before the old ones, which are over 20 years old. 2. LED bulbs last less than incandescent bulbs, even with a 20-year warranty. 3. The new cell phone's screen breaks very easily, it's not like the old Nokia's. And nowadays something expensive is no longer guaranteed to last. This is why I value old things so much: I have an old chair…

You're exaggerating about light-bulbs. There is no way LEDs last less than incandescents. If you are experiencing this, its possible your wiring is bad. You should call an electrician and have them check that out.

> There is no way LEDs last less than incandescents.

Sure there is. I bought a case of Sylvania LEDs in 2019. They're used a few hours a week and I've tossed 5 of the 15 I've installed.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#637

Post by AdamTReineke »

Decabytes wrote: post #599

I got a Lovesac Sactional after using a couch for years that was a handme down of a handmedown. I like it but it was not cheap (~4.5k). The modular nature fits our lifestyle so I'm willing to pay the premium. Having had to move a couch multiple times, I'm looking forward to just being able to break this one up into sections and take it out the door. They've got an ingenious model from a profit perspective as well. Si…

We bought a pair of Sactional seats used for $1k. And I'm delighted that we did because we hate how uncomfortable it is for us. If you're thinking about dropping 10k+ on a Sactional set, keep your eyes open for used and even consider doing what we did and trialing a smaller section first.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#638

Post by [deleted] »

hammock wrote: post #221
btbuildem wrote: post #181

Twenty some years ago I used to work at a business that made and delivered sofas. They've got showrooms in key large cities in North America, fancy schmancy top end stuff. The factory was a real place; the frames were made of solid wood and plywood, there was a sewing floor and even one (incredibly kooky) person whose sole job was to stuff the pillows. This guy was in a little room full of feathers all day, and they'…

You can still get made in the USA sofas with real hardwood, not rubber wood, which is fine, or worse, soft pine or particleboard or OSB) North Carolina was and is the center of solid wood furniture), and they still cost several to many thousands of dollars, and they will still last 100+ years with a couple reupholsterings or so, but most furniture comes from Asia now and is sold for 10x less, and is not worth reuphol…

[deleted]

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#639

Post by noduerme »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #631
noduerme wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it yourself. Why spend $7k on couches over a lifetime when you can spend $4k on one that lasts forever? If you can only scrape together $1k a year for a new piece of garbage, maybe you should sit on milk crates til you can scrape together $4k. Maybe the fact that no one thinks this way anymore explains why everyone complains their six-figure income is constantly eaten up by replacing cheap shit.

Hear me out: what if we reversed the various societal changes made since the Reagan era so people make enough money to afford the things they need and want like every generation before mine did, instead of just normalizing this notion that you need to eat shit for years on end so you can have the privilege of nice things? And that would have knock on effects for huge societal issues like climate change. Imagine how m…

I'd argue that reversing those changes would require a grass-roots effort to stop consuming so much cheap garbage. If people bought American and demanded high quality products, American manufacturing would benefit.

But also - I think the 1950s-80s were a complete abberation in which working middle class people could afford a better lifestyle every year. Not "every generation before" ours could afford a house and two cars on a factory income with a pension. Really only one generation got that, and it was mostly due to winning a world war that left us the world's only major supplier of everything, able to project military power and gobble up all the cheap oil and raw materials. Previous generations had no such thing. My grandfather grew up without indoor plumbing. He also worked 12 hours a day. He couldn't afford a modest house until his late 30s, which was after the war. Go further back and look at the stock bubbles and robber barons of the 19th Century. The wealth and pay distribution we have now is closer to historical norms than anything in the 1960s was. The major difference is our baseline quality of life is higher in the sense that everyone can afford a cheap couch (if they want one). I have to think economically like my grandparents, not like my parents.

People like my grandparents built this country by saving and sacrificing their comforts. People like my parents, boomers, got an incredibly easy ride. Now their kids expect it to be that easy. But cheap money can't go on forever, and it's cheap money and a two-car suburban family lifestyle that did all the environmental damage of the mid 20th Century that we're still trying to slow down or reverse.

tl;dr saving and buying the better couch is a more effective means of changing the status quo than complaining that everything is harder for our generation.

Re: Why are most sofas so bad?

#640

Post by bwat49 »

abraxas wrote: post #573
zac23or wrote: post #530

Everything is bad these days, not just the sofas. 1. The new switches I bought broke before the old ones, which are over 20 years old. 2. LED bulbs last less than incandescent bulbs, even with a 20-year warranty. 3. The new cell phone's screen breaks very easily, it's not like the old Nokia's. And nowadays something expensive is no longer guaranteed to last. This is why I value old things so much: I have an old chair…

On the electronics front I'd beg to differ. Apple has raised the quality bar on electronics by a mile in the last couple of decades. The gadgetry I remember from the eighties and nineties was very cheaply made with plastics that warped or cracked (or both) and cheap switches made of molded plastic and a ballpen spring. Casette player gears were mostly made of that white plastic that always wore down with not much usa…

laptops in general (not just apple) are way better than they used to be
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