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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#631

Post by oxfordmale »

10u152 wrote: post #351
oxfordmale wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's consistently score low on reliability and are expensive to repair. I would love an EV but place a high weight factor on reliability.

I thought Tesla's were low reliability across ALL vehicles (ICE included) but were the most reliable of all EV's? I guess it comes down to what "reliable" means. In my opinion if it has a failure but runs, drives, is safe and comfortable it's "reliable". For example I read lots of complaints about squeaks or rattles when music is played. I don't call that "unreliable"

It is about the number of mechanical issues per hundred vehicles and on that metric Tesla scores appallingly.

https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-....

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#632

Post by mihaaly »

dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

I can hardly imagine Hertz was introducing EVs based on parcticality and prudent deliberations.

I can imagine they wanted to have a rapid publicity stunt boarding the trend train of 'Hey! We are so cool and modern and mindful and everything, we have EVs!'. Only to be slapped by reality pretty soon afterwards. As it is ubiquitous with marketing bs.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#633

Post by oxfordmale »

WorldMaker wrote: post #433
10u152 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Tesla's were low reliability across ALL vehicles (ICE included) but were the most reliable of all EV's? I guess it comes down to what "reliable" means. In my opinion if it has a failure but runs, drives, is safe and comfortable it's "reliable". For example I read lots of complaints about squeaks or rattles when music is played. I don't call that "unreliable"

> I thought Tesla's were low reliability across ALL vehicles (ICE included) but were the most reliable of all EV's? My impression is very much the other way around: EVs are more reliable across the board for all vehicles (especially over ICE; most of the categories of unreliability that ICE invented don't exist at all for most EVs; catalytic convertors, belts, transmissions, spark plugs, ...) and somehow Tesla has ma…

It's reported that Tesla vehicles have an average of 171 mechanical issues per 100 vehicles. For reference, the average number for most automakers hovers around 120 problems per 100 vehicles.

Yes EVs should be more reliable on paper, but Tesla's aren't.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#634

Post by defrost »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #628
b112 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet there are 3 separate car manufacturers, with h2 passenger vehicles, all with 500km+ range, all being sold for 1/2 a decade. Seems like it isn't a physical constraint?

Being sold in absolutely tiny volumes. The biggest issue is the need to build out an entirely new fueling infrastructure with a highly explosive fuel. EVs can piggyback off of the existing electrical grid.

EV's are still in relatively tiny numbers.

To replace fossil fuel transport will require an entirely new infrastructure regardless - if it's electric the existing grid will essentially have to be built out by a substantial factor.

A hybrid future is entirely feasible with long established city to city truck transport routes using hydrogen from dedicated planned end points and mid points along with lighter EV vehicles and non standard route EV trucking.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#635

Post by malfist »

masklinn wrote: post #560
tuatoru wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... trying to find chargers with the right plug, ones that aren't broken, ones that were available, downloading various apps, etc. Then when I did find a charger I sat in the parking lot waiting for it to juice up. These considerations are why I think we'll eventually move to battery swapping, when the market is mature enough to have standards for batteries. When there are as many battery swapping stations as there…

To me battery swapping makes no sense for consumer cars unless it’s used to significantly increase prices (possibly by removing home charging as well): battery swapping requires a ton more maintenance, space, infrastructure, and logistics, constrains vehicles enormously, and requires a very small number of standard battery formats.

Battery swapping is also not very accessible, not evening can lift 50+ pounds

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#636

Post by light_hue_1 »

culturestate wrote: post #629
light_hue_1 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a Tesla the charging story is wonderful. The car finds chargers on it's own. It shows you exactly what's available at each charger. Hardly anything is ever broken. EVs are far easier and more convenient than gas cars. It's the non Tesla infrastructure that just sucks.

> EVs are far easier and more convenient than gas cars. EVs certainly have some advantages, but for most of the world's population "convenience" isn't one of them. If you live in a house with a garage where you can install a charger and you use your car mostly as a runabout, it's great. The majority of the western world lives in cities with street parking and fewer chargers than vehicles, though, and in that situatio…

If by "majority" you mean, a small minority, then you're spot on!

All you have to do is look at the census. 2/3rds of households have a garage or carport. If you add to this the number of people with private parking, that's like 80+% of people who can have chargers subsidized by the state.

It's always important to look at numbers before you get trapped in your bubble.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#637

Post by oxfordmale »

addaon wrote: post #430
oxfordmale wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like Musk, but I am also under no illusion that CEOs of other major car companies are any better. They may just hide their opinions a little better than Musk. The reality is that Tesla aren't very good cars from both reliability, price and range perspective. Musk has done a brilliant job hyping the car, but reality starts setting in. For example, FSD will likely remain in beta for years.

> They may just hide their opinions a little better than Musk. Isn't that better? Even if it's not /good/, it seems /better/.

It is a complex issue that would require an essay to answer.

However, in this specific case, avoiding buying a car because you don't like the CEO, it doesn't make a difference. Most CEOs are psychopaths.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#638

Post by bushbaba »

xwolfi wrote: post #502
citiguy wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rented a Model 3 from Hertz last year and drove about 120 miles in it. Due to the super cold weather (like 12 degrees), plus the fact that I drove in the mountains in New England, and I used the heat (it was freezing and I had my child with me), I had the charge the car 1/2 way there, which made me stop in the middle of nowhere for 30 minutes while I waited at a super charger. Honestly this experience stunk. I thin…

In France we had this big plan to swap batteries near instantly at the charging station, like we did with horses 300 years ago (but it's an old idea since electrical batteries were used to power vehicles everywhere), and tested it in Israel of all places with Renault... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) . Didn't work but maybe that's one idea ? Now if only we could standardize this...

We can likely get super charging down to 15 mins with latest tech. Which is an overall better long term approach than battery swapping which requires standard battery sizes limiting innovation

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#639

Post by Ekaros »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #614
rdtsc wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a knock on EV's really, mostly the charging infrastructure and the rental experience. But why not knock on them? They had a lot of promise and a lot of hype when they were being touted as simpler and cheaper and just overall better. Somehow they ended up being more expensive, unless we're talking about Chinese brands, more costly to insure, a longer time to charge than a corresponding IC car and incompatible ch…

If you have a Tesla the charging story is wonderful. The car finds chargers on it's own. It shows you exactly what's available at each charger. Hardly anything is ever broken. EVs are far easier and more convenient than gas cars. It's the non Tesla infrastructure that just sucks.

If you really wanted you could order diesel delivered to your home. And then fill your car in your own home. Nothing stops people from installing their own tanks. It is just that it is not needed as filling occasionally is minimal inconvenience. Much less than having to stick cable in your car each time you park it.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#640

Post by culturestate »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #636
culturestate wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs are far easier and more convenient than gas cars. EVs certainly have some advantages, but for most of the world's population "convenience" isn't one of them. If you live in a house with a garage where you can install a charger and you use your car mostly as a runabout, it's great. The majority of the western world lives in cities with street parking and fewer chargers than vehicles, though, and in that situatio…

If by "majority" you mean, a small minority, then you're spot on! All you have to do is look at the census. 2/3rds of households have a garage or carport. If you add to this the number of people with private parking, that's like 80+% of people who can have chargers subsidized by the state. It's always important to look at numbers before you get trapped in your bubble.

> If by "majority" you mean, a small minority, then you're spot on! ... It's always important to look at numbers before you get trapped in your bubble.

Speaking of bubbles, I wrote "majority of the western world," which admittedly surprisingly stretches beyond America.

Two-thirds of households in, say, Berlin absolutely do not have carports, garages, or private parking.

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