Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#631

Post by mptest » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:39 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

Gee if only there were a way to organize labor so we have more collective protections.... i Wonder if any sv startup has thought of that?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#632

Post by AlbertCory » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:41 PM UTC

My dad worked for Swift & Co. for 45 years. Nonetheless, when I first switched jobs, he applauded me, with "They're not loyal to you, so why should you be loyal to them?"

A corollary to what everyone said here is: always be thinking about the value of what you're doing to someone else. They always give the big rewards to people who happily take on "relevant to this place ONLY" tasks. You get promoted if you suck up to the middle managers and acquire skills that absolutely no other company values.

So if you pursue skills that are strictly "looking out for ME" you can expect some blowback. Ignore it.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#633

Post by Ancalagon » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

sbrother wrote: post #447

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

The easiest way to follow this advice is to take it to its logical conclusion and just offer your services on a contracting basis, as a single member LLC or a small partnership. At this point in the US tech industry the relationship between employers and FTEs is so tenuous that there isn’t much difference between the two legal arrangements in terms stability. I’ve kept my best clients much, much longer than my longes…

Not going to happen in the US as healthcare is not portable and its too expensive to purchase on your own.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#634

Post by nathan_douglas » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #443

jillesvangurp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better put, the relationship you have with your employer is a business relation ship. It's not personal. They are not your friends, nor your enemies. It's simply a convenient arrangement between the two of you for as long as that lasts. And it might become convenient for either side to change that arrangement at any point. The more you earn, the higher the risk that at some point somebody decides that they want to sp…

I was laid off my last job, of 27 years. I didn't actually mind. It was completely anticipated, and we (me and my team) were pretty much ready. I think the company made the correct decision, but the reason they got there, was because they made a whole cascade of rotten choices, that painted them into a corner they couldn't get out of, easily. I really wish that they would have involved me in some of the really dumb d…

What sort of shock? Were you working full-time on a single application or suite of applications for that period?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#635

Post by gregors » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

lokar wrote: post #574

ken47 wrote: post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

I did over 400 interviews working there, and many hundreds more serving on hiring committees. I never gave a leetcode interview, and saw only a modest amount of them in committee. “It’s all leetcode BS” makes a great offhand d complaint but was not the actual truth.

I personally like the story of the hiring committee that refused to hire themselves

https://youtu.be/r8RxkpUvxK0?t=531

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#636

Post by smsx » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

bmikaili wrote: post #495

kyrra wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joined Google 11 years into my career. So while I had taken an algorithms class recently, I just reread the algorithm book I used in college and spent a bunch of time studying all of them. I actually found it a lot of fun, as it was a good refresher for myself.

It‘s not as easy as it was 11 years ago. There‘s a whole industry behind it and an arms race between preparation and more difficult problems.

They didn't say they joined 11 years ago, but that they were 11 years into their career.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#637

Post by random11939 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:44 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

My ex-firm (an healthtech company in the US) is doing well.

I was a manager there. I was demoted while my newborn was in the NICU (neonatal ICU) at the beginning of my paternity leave. And my position was eliminated a few weeks after I came back to work. As a condition of getting severance, I can't officially talk about it.

That is the culture of tech companies today.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#638

Post by nathan_douglas » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:46 PM UTC

SirMaster wrote: post #608

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

>Your job is NOT safe. Maybe your job(s). But there are certainly companies out there that actually care about the welfare of their employees. Usually family owned and such. That's where I choose to work and they have always taken care of my needs and listened to me. I never really understood why people have such a desire to work for these big companies that don't care about you. I guess it's just different strokes..…

I definitely try to pick jobs based on vibe, but that's still not 100% safe. I adore my current employer. Best place I've ever worked. But we're contractors, and my team's contract just ended unexpectedly. I trust they respect me enough to rotate me to another team, but I gotta sweat bullets and send out résumés nonetheless.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#639

Post by ebiester » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #533

twh270 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

A key thought as well, in my experience: - never assume that just because it’s obvious to you (and your coworkers and boss) that it would be really stupid to lay you off or fire you, that they wouldn’t do it anyway. A lot of what is going on IMO is burnout and disconnection from the on the ground reality at the executive layer. That means short sighted, stupid, long term self harming decisions. But just because what…

Or, quite simply, the performance of an employee or division is not the only determination in layoffs. You could lay off half of teams and fill them in with ostensibly high performers in other teams, and then be worse off than before because the high performer was dependent on context and fit.

Or, you may have a division that is profitable, but it takes an outsized attention in the organization relative to its profitability and the loss of revenue is made up for focus in the rest of the organization. (Ideally, you would find a way to spin that off or sell it, but there are times where the tight integration makes this unfeasible.)

And yes, there is disconnection from the on-the-ground reality too. (and all sorts of things) - but this all goes to say that layoffs, when executed, often are not correlated with individual performance.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#640

Post by sbrother » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #633

sbrother wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to follow this advice is to take it to its logical conclusion and just offer your services on a contracting basis, as a single member LLC or a small partnership. At this point in the US tech industry the relationship between employers and FTEs is so tenuous that there isn’t much difference between the two legal arrangements in terms stability. I’ve kept my best clients much, much longer than my longes…

Not going to happen in the US as healthcare is not portable and its too expensive to purchase on your own.

Well, this is one of the reasons you charge more as a freelancer. It's ~$2k/mo for a family; even if I charged exactly the same as my market rate as an FTE, that would be less than the tax benefit I get from operating through a properly set up LLC taxed as an S-corporation. LTD and E&O insurance are other big expenses, but they're not prohibitive given the delta in hourly rate between FTE and C2C.