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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

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I suppose that these are people who do not understand Arab culture. Just recently (as in, I remember it was October 22 because I had an appointment in Beersheba that day) an Arab explained to me, more or less because the conversation was not in English, that "You Jews always argue and protest and fight with each other. We don't do that, we listen to our fathers. We have families". He was explaining to me how the different families fight between them, like they'll shoot at each others houses but the goal is to assert family honour, not to actually shoot somebody. But the point he was struggling to make, is that in Arab societies, everybody thinks the same. There is no room for division, no room for dissent, no room for contrary opinions. He specifically mentioned that he has family in Gaza (and yes, this was already two weeks into the current conflict) and everybody there is Hamas. He said "is Hamas", up to me (and you) to interpret that as being actual members of the organization or supporters.

I actually talk to Arabs often here, and I don't shy away from the hard questions. The Beduins specifically will happily tell you all you want to hear, with me (maybe naively) feeling that I'm in danger. Just yesterday I had a half hour conversation with a Beduin about such matters, in my house as my guest.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#632

There are about 1.8 Billion Muslims on planet earth. There are about 15 Million Jews on the planet. There are about 120 Muslims for every Jewish person. In Israel there are about 7 million Jews. The anti Israel propaganda and blatant lies on social media is sickening. To someone who knows what's on the ground, reading countless 100% false posts from many (not all!) Muslims and Palestinian supporters is downright scar…

> This article that singles out Israel for trying to provide its (true) version of reality

Is this a serious comment, or satire? I honestly can't tell. I mean... we're talking about a country whose official social media accounts tries to pass off pics of the Lebanese war as the current situation in Gaza; who posts doctored images to try to disguise executions; who posts edited footage of their military commanders pointing at calendars saying they are a roster of terrorist names. I could go on and on, but that last bit is still too surreal.

What (true) version of reality are you talking about here? And besides that, you do realise that one of the things this article is pointing out is how certain groups work together to punish people who post things they don't like - even if it's just an opinion?

Nevermind, your post simply has to be satire...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#633

Some of this information war seems to be intended from keeping the US from considering a third option - sitting this one out. One U.S. State Department official resigned over this when he saw Israel's weapons shopping list.[1] The US could provide humanitarian aid, but not military aid. Cut military aid to Israel. Maybe still provide Iron Dome reloads, but that's about it. Bring in a hospital ship off Gaza, to care f…

The problem with cutting aid to Israel is that the only thing stopping Israel from committing even more violence is the western support they receive. The current Israeli government is as right wing as the country has ever seen. The defense minister is a proud supporter of terrorism against palestinians and even israeli's who support palestinians. He believes god gave the west bank and the entire levant to the jews. If Israel's international relations soured they would quickly come to the conclusion that they have nothing to lose and no reason not to enact their "final solution to the palestinian problem".

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#634
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

Let's take a very clear, narrow lens on the issue. Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza. I say this because any other way is a can of worms. How did Hamas come into power? What are its goals? What have they promised to do to accomplish those objectives? Their goals are of malicious intent, and they have demonstrated that they're willing to do anything to accomplish the…

Re: "Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza" - I do not think you can. A lot of Palestinians are radicalized. What do you think a father who lost his kids in an airstrike will do next? Or a brother who lost his sister / brother? Do you think these people will care about rule of law, or turn the other cheek, etc...?

Re: "any other way is a can of worms". I agree with this statement.

Putting these two statements together means there will never be peace in Palestine. It sucks....

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#636
I find this supposed expose profoundly underwhelming. So a bunch of people collaborated on private channels to promote a point of view? That happens about 10 thousand times per week. We're all living in nested, overlapping and opposing conspiracies that express themselves on social media and in policy. And of course, the people supporting Palestine or Hamas or whatever are doing the same. So what?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

You're making a good point about the symbiotic relationship with the Israeli right. This reminds me of a recent interesting discussion on the Skeptics StackExchange: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56315/did-netan...

The crazy thing is that the pro war machine talking heads keeps trying to make this about Iran, when it's really Qatar and Turkey financing Hamas, in part using illegal Oil sales from Syria. Nikki Haley was talking about "finishing them". It's also worth remembering that Hamas actively fought AGAINST Syria and it's allies(Iran) with the other Islamist rebels

The US has huge military presences in both countries, and if they really wanted to shut down funding to those institutions they could do it tomorrow.

We know that Netanyahu deliberated supported these groups to shut down opposition in Gaza by his own accord and that he has even recently asked to send more funding[1]. The talking heads also want you to believe that this is some sort of protection money out of goodwill for the poor civilians in Gaza.

I listened to some Palestinians on twitter spaces the other day and they told explained to people how the political landscape is actually a lot more complex than we are led to believe from media.

One person breaking down Hamas really well has been Brian Berletic from the new atlas[2]. Some people here might not like him, because he very much in favour of China, but I still urge everyone to take a look at his Palestine analysis.

[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-chief-top-general-visit...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPJaNoxtE20

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there actually many equally abhorrent issues right now? I can think of like, 2, and they're both involving the exact same actors. Doctors were forced at gunpoint to leave premature babies to rot at Al Nasr hospital. And you're surprised that the world is horrified?! Journalists and healthcare staff and schools have been targeted at a shocking rate. Civil infrastructure and historic churches blown up without the t…

This comes off as ignorant of events happening elsewhere. Approximately 600,000 people died in the Tigray conflict in Ethiopia in the two years from November 2020 to November 2022. 40% of the Ethiopian population is children. The Yemeni civil war (2016-present) had killed at least 377,000 people, as of two years ago. By now, many more than that. There are mass graves in Mali and Sudan where hundreds of bodies are jus…

None of these events are ones where American bombs, taxpayer funded, make up so much of the deadly weaponry.

None of them have higher civilian death rates per day.

None of them have so many murdered children, journalists, UN workers per capita per day (and often even in absolute terms).

None of them are so drastically David and Goliath, where one clear oppressor and occupier is killing so, so many more people.

Sudan, Libya, and Ethipoia aren't spending tens of millions of dollars funding propaganda to smear anyone who suggests they might stop genociding a people.

Even if these "events happening elsewhere" were as bad, or were as directly funded by the West, or were as one-sided - so what? What exactly is your point? What are you calling ignorant?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#639

There are about 1.8 Billion Muslims on planet earth. There are about 15 Million Jews on the planet. There are about 120 Muslims for every Jewish person. In Israel there are about 7 million Jews. The anti Israel propaganda and blatant lies on social media is sickening. To someone who knows what's on the ground, reading countless 100% false posts from many (not all!) Muslims and Palestinian supporters is downright scar…

Why does how many Muslims there are have to do with anything? Israel is not at war with the Muslim community they are at war with a single country which is not even all Muslim. Seems like shaky rhetoric.
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