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A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

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Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#631

Post by startupsfail »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #599
startupsfail wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered suing the third party that made a false accusation? It seems that they’ve caused suffering and irreparable long term harm. This sounds like something that may have a standing. Perhaps you can sue them and either get some material compensation (if they are well to do) put them through a few rounds of trials in another state or something (if they are poor, this will be a good punishment in itself).…

Also not a lawyer, but there is a significant motivation for protection when an incorrect accusation is made in good faith, because a lot of correct reports of child abuse are based on circumstantial evidence and suspicion - so you would need very clear strong evidence that the reporter knew the information was false and was intentionally misleading CPS, or you’d be thrown out of court immediately. In some places you…

Duh. It is pretty wrong that the accuser could stay anonymous.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#632

Post by [deleted] »

cycomanic wrote: post #120
froggertoaster wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 5 kids in 10 years, you come to realize that the standards aren't agreed upon, and best practices/recommendations change YEAR TO YEAR without fail. Breastfeeding is one of the worst things hoisted upon mothers who are told "you must try no matter what" - seemingly ignoring the mental and physical health of the mother and the father all the while.

My partner is a GP who has been doing early childhood screening. One thing she learnt after doing a special training is that advice on proper breastfeeding is very difficult to find. She found that with many mothers that had problems, some small adjustments could often make a huge difference (often causing a kind of hallelujah moment for the mothers). The issue is much of the advice given at the hospital is wrong or…

[deleted]

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#633

Post by lgvld »

rossant wrote: post #239
trenchgun wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>parents lose custody for 2 months. Horror story. If you read the rest of the article, you will realize that this was the absolute happy path in that kind of situation. That's the real horror story: that the default path involves stuff like losing custody forever, incarceration, suicide, divorce etc.

Yes, after discovering hundreds of families living much worse situations, I consider myself as one of the lucky few. I'm grateful for that and this is why I can spend so much energy ensuring it doesn't affect too many other families in the future.

I'm happy for you -- the parents -- and your son. Thank you for your dedication. Wish you the best.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#634

Post by DrThunder »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #543
DrThunder wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underage kids can't consult to really anything legally on their own. You cannot have a system where in certain cases they're treated as adults. I get what you're saying but I cannot believe that any good parent thinks this is ok. This country has weird culture that's started happening in the last decade where the parents take a back seat and the government/institutions are taking their place. Suddenly, you're hearing…

>Parents should never have to give up their rights in the name of "safety". You can be forgiven with this opinion if you have not met or spent time around the types of parents whose children genuinely need to be taken away: neglectful, abusive, and extremely harmful to their kids.

This is like agreeing with a judicial that treats people as guilty until they're proven innocent.

Bad things happening in some cases is not justification for treating everyone as a criminal. That's how totalitarianism starts.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#635

Post by winter_blue »

raducu wrote: post #400
pyrale wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Denmark and other more developed countries it could be the opposite. Did you mean: richer?

I mean more developed, because a country like Saudi Arabia is rich but not developed imho, and there could be countries that are develope -- i.e. they have good education, infrastructure, medical care, human rights, clean environment etc etc and not that rich.

Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but I feel a bit like I need to share my thoughts on this matter.

> like Saudi Arabia is rich but not developed imho > good education, infrastructure, medical care, human rights, clean environment

Saudi Arabia's record on human rights is truly horrible (for example, recently they've started murdering refugees[0]), but the idea of whether a country is "developed" seems to be highly subjective, imho. I don't know for sure (never been to Saudi Arabia), but I'm guessing they check off all the boxes except for human rights[1]. (About a clean environment--I imagine they'd be as clean as Abu Dhabi or Dubai (the UAE) which were a lot cleaner imo or on par with Western cities. I guess this is a matter of subjective matter, but is human rights a dimension a country has to have in order to be considered developed? If human rights is indeed a dimension that needs to be satisfied, would that mean that the brutal treatment of black and brown minorities in the US by the police would make the U.S. a country that's not developed?

I'm asking this since Western European countries also have a track record that has historically surpassed world records for brutality. For example, Belgium[1] was chopping off the hands of African tribal people they had forced into labor (effectively enslaved), Germany murdered 6 million innocent Jewish people[2] and had a habit murdering people even before the Nazis in its colonies as well[3], the British were responsible for numerous famines in India as well as famine in Ireland as well as other atrocities[4], the French committed atrocities[5], so did the Netherlands and the Dutch with the East India Company[6], and Spain and Portugal (along with England and others) were highly culpable in the murder of millions of Native Americans[7].

Did these actions, at least temporarily, render these Western European countries as "not developed" countries?

[0][a] https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killin...

[0][b] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/26/world/middleeast/saudi-ki...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_S...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

[4] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atroci...

[5] https://newlinesmag.com/newsletter/the-dark-legacy-of-french...

[6] https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/10/dutch-colonial-history-...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#636

Post by salubrioustoxin »

Largely agree w article. However I think it's important to mention that there are other validated ways to detect abuse and that clinical decision making is, or at least should be, based on multiple lines of evidence. Especially with abuse.

In ED and clinic I have had kids that screened positive for TEN 4 FACESp (see https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...). One of these babies ended up having b/l subdurals, likely abuse. In the end they may have called that "shaken baby", however there were multiple other red flags, the subdurals was only one piece, and the suspected mechanism of the subdurals was repeated drops / falls.

Agreed "shaking" may not be the mechanism but the author lists other mechanisms that can lead to subdurals and retinal hemorrhage where NAT could play role, eg hypoxia via choking, repeated falls from pushing/drops, neglect in unsafe motor vehicle situations.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#637

Post by rocqua »

NiloCK wrote: post #541
gwd wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another factor in this, which makes it hard to change: For the people in child welfare organizations, for social workers, for doctors, for police, for judges to change their mind about current and future decisions requires them to change their mind about past decisions. The necessary implication is that many of the people they have persecuted in the past were, in fact, innocent. It requires them to admit that…

It's hard to understand something if your salary depends on it being false. It's much, much harder again to understand something if it makes your life's work ignoble.

It's hard to understand something if your salary depends on your misunderstanding.

It's even harder to understand something if your self-conception as honorable depends on your mistunderstanding?

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#638

Post by chpatrick »

DrThunder wrote: post #634
cool_dude85 wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Parents should never have to give up their rights in the name of "safety". You can be forgiven with this opinion if you have not met or spent time around the types of parents whose children genuinely need to be taken away: neglectful, abusive, and extremely harmful to their kids.

This is like agreeing with a judicial that treats people as guilty until they're proven innocent. Bad things happening in some cases is not justification for treating everyone as a criminal. That's how totalitarianism starts.

You're always arrested before being proven guilty in court, this is the same situation.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#639

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

RektBoy wrote: post #270
Muromec wrote: post #215

Oh the good old, violent Easter European bias mixed into crap science.

It also because north Europe has one of the most toxic social services in the world, kidnapping kids 24/7. That's basically their job.

This is a difficult question I've been pondering between the UK/USA.

Who has more authority over their children and in which domains?

Medical providers, can they ruin kids' lives in various ways? It's easy to manipulate worried parents.

Schools, do teachers have authority over their classroom, how much? Can they override parents, for example when rescuing them from anti-LGBT?

Nobody trusts churches anymore, so that's not really a problem.

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