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Java 21 makes me like Java again

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Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#631

Post by forty »

coldtea wrote: post #568
paradite wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure if the users of VS Code, Discord, Slack, etc would agree. Yes it's bulky and sometimes slow, but it offers a lot of features and allow developers to ship features and updates really fast, while only needing one codebase for all platform.

I'm a user of VS Code and Slack and I'd be very happy if they didn't use Electron. > Yes it's bulky and sometimes slow, but it offers a lot of features and allow developers to ship features and updates really fast, while only needing one codebase for all platform. Like Slack having 1000x the memory and CPU use for 1/10th of the features a 200K app like ICQ used to have 25 years ago?

I feel vscode is quite good at hiding the fact it's not native, and felt quite snappy when I used it. Slack on the other hand feels painful slow and heavy (and very sensitive to network events like change of network or short disconnections, while native apps are generally much better add handling such glitches for some reasons)

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#632

Post by mathisfun123 »

Tomte wrote: post #629
mathisfun123 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

both suggestions here are for books that cover java 8. how is it possible that java 8 is modern relative to java 21?

Core Java for the Impatient (3rd) is less than a year old and updated for Java 17.

excellent - thanks

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#633

Post by mx_02 »

owlstuffing wrote: post #606
fatfingerd wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm also not really sure I want to see algebraic types in Java even though I would prefer if a language that focused on algebraic types was more popular. All the existing Java code doesn't go away, so is it really going to be nicer to have code like this mixed randomly into that?

Of all the features most Java devs (and ex-Java devs) desire, algebraic types are near the bottom. How about intersection and union types? (NO, sealed classes are not a substitute for unions). But, yeah, in my view JDK 21 is a a disappointment. I rarely want pattern matching, but I would like properties please and records are nice, but actual tuples are more useful. Etc.

I'd love if interfaces worked as in typescript.

As long as the object signature matches the interface as parameter then you can use it.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#634

Post by mx_02 »

impulser_ wrote: post #187
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

I don't think any existing Go developer is going back to Java. I worked with Java for 10 years and switched to Go and I will never go back. This is mostly because applications and libraries are so hard to reason about and understand due to inheritance, packaging, OOP, build tools ect compared to Go. Go is simple. It's easy to understand, read, and maintain. The packaging is like how you would package files on your co…

> The packaging is like how you would package files on your computer in single folders

How does that vary from Java?

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#635

Post by olavgg »

raziel2p wrote: post #546
olavgg wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100x, C# and Java are also very similar programming languages. C# may be a better language, but the difference is minimal. Most C# developers claiming that C# is a better language often don't know Java. I remember one C# guy telling me that Java didn't have closures before Java 8, which was not quite true. Java developers had access to Groovy which had closures. Groovy may be another programming language, but it…

Groovy is... not Java.

I think it is, just as Gradle is Java. Groovy is a superset of Java, and makes some parts of Java development better. I for example write many tests with Groovy or implement DSLs for my clients with Groovy.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#636

Post by mike_hearn »

synergy20 wrote: post #600
mike_hearn wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that with Java too. The JDK has jpackage, but if you want something better than I'm willing to sell that to you (or give it for free, if you're open source): https://conveyor.hydraulic.dev/ It can be used to ship servers, we use it that way for our own servers. It sets up systemd so you don't need to use Docker. But where it shines is desktop apps. Windows users get a little 400kb EXE that installs/updates…

Java GUI is less appealing though

That was true in 2005. Modern Java UI can look pretty great. Two examples:

1. Start IntelliJ and check it out. It's Swing but it feels modern and fresh.

2. Go to https://www.jfx-central.com/ ... JavaFX was introduced years ago to add far better support for modern visuals. JFX Central is a website written with JavaFX itself - it runs server side and streams drawing instructions to the client (implemented using a mix of divs, svg tags and css). You can do this because JavaFX implements the CSS2 drawing model. The website looks modern, like any slick website would today, but you can also download and run it locally. It uses Conveyor to do that in fact. The desktop version looks exactly the same as the web version.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#637

Post by synergy20 »

ozim wrote: post #347
synergy20 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go's major selling point to me is that you can ship one binary, nothing beats that. Python, Node, Java all have to pre-install lots of dependencies before you can use them, fine for developers, not so great if you want to distribute software for people who are not software savvy, who typically just wants to download one file, install and start using it. c and c++ can also do one executable, but, it is not as portable…

If you want to distribute app to non tech people you do it via browser ;)

there are many apps that are not suited for a browser :(, on some embedded devices with a touch screen, it does not even have a browser and no internet connection either.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#638

Post by kaba0 »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #621
kaba0 wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gradle is much faster than maven as it can properly parallelize the workloads. Sure, it won’t be visible on a hello world, though.

Has never been the case in my many years of using it. Hundreds of MB permanent RAM usage for the daemon (which it wouldn’t require if it was properly designed), everything taking well above 10s. None of this has ever been an issue with Maven.

You can disable the daemon in gradle if you don’t want it.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#639

Post by mdaniel »

lakomen wrote: post #535
pjmlp wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a non starter for businesses that don't ship source code.

https://pkg.go.dev/plugin

> Plugins are currently supported only on Linux, FreeBSD, and macOS, making them unsuitable for applications intended to be portable.

uh-huh

but, in all seriousness: I wonder why that is? I struggle to think of a technical reason that go would be unable to load and invoke a .dll even if one had to name it .so https://github.com/golang/go/blob/go1.21.1/src/plugin/plugin...

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#640

Post by msgilligan »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #628
msgilligan wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning's Modern Java in Action is outstanding. It assumes you already know basic Java. https://www.manning.com/books/modern-java-in-action

both suggestions here are for books that cover java 8. how is it possible that java 8 is modern relative to java 21?

Modern Java in Action (the 2nd edition of Java 9 in Action) covers Java 11 and contains a final chapter that talks about "future Java" features -- many of which are now implemented.

It's a great book for Java programmers who want to make the jump to functional-style programming. If that's the transition one is hoping to make, then I would definitely recommend the book.

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