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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#631

Post by ravenstine »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #464

There's a lot of missing the point in these threads about software locks. Building a car in a uniform way for economy of scale savings, fine. Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Using software to rent-seek on one time costs like heated seats. Not fine. Less fine too if the seat subscription can't carry to secondary market. This can he used to cripple seconda…

The third is exactly why the second is NOT fine. The second naturally leads to the third.

Until legislation is passed, you will only pry my dumbcar from my cold dead hands.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#632

Post by bonestamp2 »

Biganon wrote: post #621
bonestamp2 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember being out for a beer run with a friend during these days. On the way there he pulls into a parking lot and stops in front of a nail salon. He said, "Come on" and I followed him into the nail salon. There were about 10 women in there, not a guy in sight... he goes up to the desk and pushes a button that looks like a doorbell. One of the ladies doing the nails says, "He no work here no more, check dry cleane…

Why did you take the car to cross the road?

It's a big busy road with a median in the middle. There were no crosswalks nearby, and we had to go back that direction anyway. Why do you ask?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#633

Post by blackrobot »

xattt wrote: post #616
pests wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gait detection renders any of this obsolute sadly.

A third pant leg sown on one side with a rock on the bottom will (probably) throw off some algos.

This is a good idea! https://youtu.be/BNhriA2xq9E

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#634

Post by caf »

circuit10 wrote: post #555
oatmeal1 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People overreact to this. If this didn't exist, they would just manufacture cars the old way where multiple version of the same car are produced at high and low prices. I have seen no evidence provided this actually increases the total price of a high feature car. This might actually lower the average price paid because of the economies of scale achieved by making fewer different versions of the same car. Resale valu…

In an ideal world we could just give everyone those features if they didn’t cost any extra to add instead of creating an artificial pricing structure to get more money out of people. Maybe it can’t work that way but making people’s lives worse just to punish them for paying less in order to incentivise them to pay more, rather than as compensation to the company for doing more work, seems wrong

Doesn't the same sort of apply to eg. Microsoft should give you access to all of their existing software titles when you buy an xbox? It's not like you paying for Flight Sim now compensates them for doing more work.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#635

Post by sdfignaionio »

hot_gril wrote: post #573
circuit10 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/cLGcGnGJvL0 where they say how one of the reasons laptops are getting harder to upgrade is probably so they can make you buy an expensive configuration and still advertise a low starting price

Laptops have real physical limitations involved, similar to smartphones don't have RAM slots, so I don't buy the video. But silly as it is, at least you can "download" heated seats later if you change your mind.

Perhaps it is reasonable to solder parts to the motherboard. It's less reasonable to charge a massive markup on storage and memory. The margins on those upgrades are well over 100%.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#636

Post by alistairSH »

abduhl wrote: post #590
robryan wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could do that but would have to raise the base price. These addon features allows a cheaper entry point and price discrimination for those who are willing to pay more. Whether it ends up being wasteful is complicated, there are would be operating effeciencies in putting the same hardware into every car.

>> They could do that but would have to raise the base price. Why? The component is already in every vehicle. This is not like binning for chips: every vehicle must (and does) have the capability because it’s unknown whether a consumer will pay for the upgrade. If anything, the price should go down because software costs have decreased by removing the software locks.

The value of the option could be enough to allow below-cost pricing on the base model. Completely made up napkin math…

Base price: $10,000. Cost to produce (including profit): $11,000. Cost of option: $2000. 51% of buyers opt for the option at purchase. Some % of resales result in additional sales of the option.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#637

Post by [deleted] »

closewith wrote: post #453
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fucking hell, here we go again: "Dash cams are much more tightly regulated in some parts of the EU than elsewhere." It depends on the eu country of which there are several...including an ex-eu country. How it comes accross: One of the things i hate about America is that in new york all the californian building restrictions and zoning are killing free speech.

With respect, the GDPR is a Regulation and this applies uniformly across the bloc. Enforcement varies, obviously. TBH your comment comes off as very condescending and ill-informed.

[deleted]

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#638

Post by progman32 »

mgiampapa wrote: post #196
vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

Just like we used to have cable box guys willing to sell you an unlocked box for premium channels, we are eventually going to have feature unlock guys that you go do and for a small fee perform some slightly more technical hack to enable features that are already there.

I unlocked a whole extra gallon on my i3's fuel tank (just about doubling its capacity) just by poking it with a computer, there's definitely people around willing to pay for this service.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#639

Post by hot_gril »

sdfignaionio wrote: post #635
hot_gril wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops have real physical limitations involved, similar to smartphones don't have RAM slots, so I don't buy the video. But silly as it is, at least you can "download" heated seats later if you change your mind.

Perhaps it is reasonable to solder parts to the motherboard. It's less reasonable to charge a massive markup on storage and memory. The margins on those upgrades are well over 100%.

Yeah, even if the soldering isn't intentional for non-upgreadability, they certainly took advantage of it in the pricing. And with the heated seats, the margin is infinite.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#640

Post by caf »

abduhl wrote: post #590
robryan wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could do that but would have to raise the base price. These addon features allows a cheaper entry point and price discrimination for those who are willing to pay more. Whether it ends up being wasteful is complicated, there are would be operating effeciencies in putting the same hardware into every car.

>> They could do that but would have to raise the base price. Why? The component is already in every vehicle. This is not like binning for chips: every vehicle must (and does) have the capability because it’s unknown whether a consumer will pay for the upgrade. If anything, the price should go down because software costs have decreased by removing the software locks.

You're assuming that the cost of the component is being recovered through the base price of every vehicle, but that's not likely because the base price has to compete on price against other vehicles without the feature.

Instead if, for example, the component adds $30 to the BOM and they know from market research that 10% of buyers will pay $500 for the software unlock within 3 months of purchase, they don't have to include the cost in the base price and still make very good margin on it.

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