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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#631

Post by brightlancer »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #473
eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

Easy access to credit is a good thing. I cannot believe I am saying this on HN. The problem as I see it, as a non-American, is that university in the US is a business trying to turn a profit. Even if most universities are technically non-profits, they are managed like businesses by MBAs. In the EU many countries offer guaranteed loans for Uni education, but this has not spiked the cost of education because Universiti…

Not-for-profit businesses in the US are not legally allowed to turn a profit. There are no financial owners to be paid a profit. So, everything you wrote about that is BS.

Not-for-profit businesses are still businesses; they need to take in as much as they spend, whether it's through fees for service (e.g. tuition) or donations. Colleges and universities in the US spend a lot of time begging alumni to donate money.

And yes, there is education and training specific to running a not-for-profit _business_, and many GOOD leaders have MBAs. I have watched a lot of them fail because the folks at the top did not manage money well.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#632

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

brightlancer wrote: post #630
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paying $20k for daycare and there's not really a free option, that's just what you have to do. If you're paying $20k for private school, and there's a free option (public school) - you obviously have a healthy amount of disposable income.

> If you're paying $20k for private school, The link says the average for HS is $15.6k; if that's a mathematical mean, that's going to be driven up by a handful of very expensive schools. > and there's a free option (public school) Most public schools in the US are garbage. > - you obviously have a healthy amount of disposable income. Or make frugal choices elsewhere, or receive scholarships/ financial aid, likely bo…

> Or make frugal choices elsewhere, or receive scholarships/ financial aid, likely both.

Most people are already doing that and still can't spend $20k to send their children to a non-"garbage" school.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#633

Post by mwerd »

yardie wrote: post #198
mwerd wrote: post #125

You have to look at net price not sticker price. faulty analysis. better data here https://usafacts.org/articles/college-tuition-has-increased-...

You only get the net price after applying and submitting a FAFSA. The net price is only useful if you intend to go there. It's functionally useless for any other purpose. If the price says $100 then for most everyone it's $100.

There are resources such as https://collegecost.ed.gov/net-price to help with the information.

College prices are about as real as hospital prices. Sure, some outliers literally pay that much, but the vast majority receive a discounted price for various reasons. When you factor in those discounts, the cost inflation is 2.5x instead of 17x as the article suggests. It's more than a forgettable idiosyncrasy. It's "how it works" and if the author of the article doesn't mention it, they're either so ignorant as to not be worth reading or they're being dishonest.

I thought it was important to give that context.

American higher Ed is often about prestige and branding. The pricing strategy is similar to luxury goods.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#634

Post by __loam »

drew-y wrote: post #6
londons_explore wrote: post #3

Main cause: Government-backed student loans. While it is technically the student paying, in reality the money is going (indirectly) from the federal reserve to the universities. Everyone loves free government money... The fact the student may never pay off those loans (and hence the government foots the bill) is the cherry on top.

Got a source for that claim?

The article this post was about?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#635

Post by peanuty1 »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #500
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "lenders," and what "market" are you talking about? 92% of all student debt was issued by the federal government. As a matter of social policy, the government does not meaningfully consider credit risk when issuing student loans.

The government taking credit risk into account would have such regressive results it would be hilarious. The cost of college would dramatically plunge for kids from rich families taking CS and finance classes and skyrocket for everyone else

That would be great if cost of college plunged for CS and finance students.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#637

Post by abduhl »

hdctambien wrote: post #496
diob wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have data on how many take advantage of it? My anecdotes are that everyone who tries this gets trapped in some bureaucratic hell hole that tends to prevent it from actually being used.

NPR did some reporting on this a couple years ago: https://www.npr.org/2019/07/11/739860400/broken-promises-tea... "By the department's last count, only 1% of the people who think they've made their 10 years of payments and apply for loan forgiveness are getting approved. If you took all the people getting rejected and got them together in one place, Peterson says, you'd have "football stadiums full of nurses, firefi…

The PLSF has been significantly overhauled since 2019, and continues to be made easier to qualify (and be approved) for.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#638

Post by drew-y »

__loam wrote: post #634
drew-y wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got a source for that claim?

The article this post was about?

The article does not support this claim.

The claim: > Main cause: Government-backed student loans.

I've read the article. It discusses student loans and how they've skyrocketed, but never makes the claim that their availability is the cause. Instead, it argues a change in America's "labor profile" is to blame for the rise in demand (which, in turn, leads to higher tuition):

> Rising enrollment is also associated with a changing US labor profile; for example, manufacturing jobs were eclipsed by “business and professional services” jobs as well as healthcare, education, and retail jobs.

Going further, the author suggests we need to forgive/cancel the student loans:

> These loans should be forgiven/cancelled

To me, this implies the author does not believe federal student loans are to blame.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#639

Post by brightlancer »

Baader-Meinhof wrote: post #526
mrguyorama wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society is better off as a whole with a well educated populace. We shouldn't optimize for college only for kids who can learn to program or whatever. Most other developed nations manage to send every smart kid to college for ten thousand dollars per kid or less. Once again, it is only the US that thinks it is a special butterfly that can't somehow manage to give kids college. Sure, most European colleges don't spend…

City and community colleges exist, and are mostly free. But for most people, colleges are more than just an education. College is about signaling their aptitude. And so people keep trying to pile into expensive private school for the prestige.

> City and community colleges exist, and are mostly free.

Tuition, usually. Books, maybe. Room and board, ha!

As an anecdote, it cost less for one of my kids to go out of state to a private college than in-state to a public university; tuition at the public university would've been free, but the private college offered scholarships and financial aid that fully covered tuition and most of on-campus room and board.

Sure, my kid could've gone to a community college and lived at home, but the education would have been far worse, food isn't free, and it's harder to build a community when folks have to leave in the evening to travel 30-60 minutes in any direction.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#640

Post by brightlancer »

janalsncm wrote: post #345
eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

It only makes sense if you believe education is just like any other commodity whose price should be driven by market forces. Should government have any say in whether its citizenry gets educated? Is there a public interest in it? I can’t think of an easier way for e.g. China to win the 21st century. American undergrad enrollment is already down. As the world gets more technical, that is not a good sign. When an entir…

> Should government have any say in whether its citizenry gets educated? Is there a public interest in it?

That's a very dangerous road.

Governments are not some benevolent creature which always acts in the best interests of the People. As a practical matter, governments are usually incompetent and corrupt (usually in that order), and try to get the masses to further the interests of the politicians, the bureaucrats and the donor class.

I want an educated populace. For that reason, I want government as far away from it as possible.

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