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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#631

Post by gymbeaux »

BizarroLand wrote: post #601
gymbeaux wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are plenty of documented cases where heavy smoking for around 30 years = cancer. I have to wonder if cigarettes of the 50s are different from the cigarettes of today. Perhaps, for example, some additive(s) not present in the 50s cigs are causing cancer in today’s cigs. Also, “hard-smoking” is subjective. Are the heavy smokers of today smoking more than the heavy smokers of the 50s? Speaking anecdotally, all…

I know some cigarette companies put asbestos in the filter to keep the cotton fibers of other brands out of your lungs. That might have had some unintended side effects...

A cursory Google search says it was one company and only until 1956, but that's a neat fact. It's like when kids would get their limbs X-Rayed at the grocery store for funsies.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#632

Post by rolenthedeep »

dkarl wrote: post #596
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Even twenty years ago, if you went to a bar, you couldn't wear the same jeans to work the next day, because they reeked of smoke. My city passed an indoor public smoking ban in 2005. At first, when I got a little bit drunk, I'd get nostalgic for the smell of cigarettes. The majority of people didn't smoke, including my friends, but before the ban, you couldn't be in a bar and not be surrounded by the smell of cigaret…

I started drinking after being pressured by a crazy Czech roommate years ago. I also started smoking cigs and weed at the same time.

I was in Vegas a few weeks ago, and being able to smoke at the bar was probably my favorite part. Not because I think it's a good thing, but just for the pure nostalgia.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#633

Post by dminvs »

moffkalast wrote: post #438
skupig wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect is also stronger, lasts longer, and is less addictive than coffee. The average user isn't smoking a joint per hour like it was tobacco. Sure, it's definitely not healthy, but everyone does something that trades longevity for fun. :-)

Still, I'm not sure why someone would bother with the risks of smoking when edibles exist.

Legality of sale of products of reliable quality is unevenly distributed

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#634

Post by HyperSane »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #152
HyperSane wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaping is almost harmless compared to how many diseases smoking tobacco causes and how much it makes a person stink and how much it makes buildings stink and how the tar builds up on walls.

Key word: almost

I would estimate vaping to be about 1% as harmful as a pack a day smoking habit.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#635

Post by nibbleshifter »

ornornor wrote: post #296
nibbleshifter wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terraces in bars are now just smoking areas in countries that implemented an indoor smoking ban. Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.

Depends where. It’s illegal to smoke on terraces, near entrances, and near windows in Canada. I believe NYC has similar bylaws. But yes in many places, outdoor and terraces/patios are still a health hazard.

Terraces and patios here are clearly designated as the smoking area.

Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#636

Post by ornornor »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #635
ornornor wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends where. It’s illegal to smoke on terraces, near entrances, and near windows in Canada. I believe NYC has similar bylaws. But yes in many places, outdoor and terraces/patios are still a health hazard.

Terraces and patios here are clearly designated as the smoking area. Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.

Still doesn’t make it right.

As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds of time a service)

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#637

Post by nibbleshifter »

ornornor wrote: post #636
nibbleshifter wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terraces and patios here are clearly designated as the smoking area. Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.

Still doesn’t make it right. As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds o…

That is your problem.

If the terrace is clearly marked as a smoking area, complaining about people smoking in the smoking area is irrational behavior.

As for bringing infants to bars... Well. Restaurants is one thing, but bringing infants (or any children) to bars is just antisocial behavior.

Where I live its not permitted for minors to be in the bar after 9pm, but many people think it should be much, much earlier cutoff time.

Now what's funny is, this actually was briefly a solved problem, but anti smoking people went and ruined it for everyone in some countries.

The solution was entirely sealed off smoking rooms with ventilation that ensured smoke didn't "leak" from the smoking room.

Anti smoking campaigners made it so smoking areas had to be in the open air to some extent, entirely prohibiting indoor smoking rooms.

Hence: the patio/terrace is now the smoking area, instead of sectioning off of an area indoors and fitting of a ventilation.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#638

Post by ornornor »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #637
ornornor wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn’t make it right. As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds o…

That is your problem. If the terrace is clearly marked as a smoking area, complaining about people smoking in the smoking area is irrational behavior. As for bringing infants to bars... Well. Restaurants is one thing, but bringing infants (or any children) to bars is just antisocial behavior. Where I live its not permitted for minors to be in the bar after 9pm, but many people think it should be much, much earlier cu…

Hard disagree. You’re free to do as you please as long as it doesn’t impact others.

Annexing patios and terraces for smokers use very much impacts non smokers. And it’s not like I can sidestep the problem because maybe I would also like to enjoy a meal or drink outdoors without smoking, and if I don’t I still have to walk through a toxic cloud to get into the venue. Never mind being pretty much in the smoking section if the only spot left is near the door or window.

People who smoke bother those who don’t much more than the other way around. It takes one smoker to ruin the air and make it toxic in a 15–30m radius for everyone else.

This isn’t “my” problem. Im not being facetious or picky. Posting an area as smoking doesn’t absolve anyone of the consequences or burden on others. Cigarette smoke stinks (even most smokers agree), is known to be a potent carcinogen, and no one should be forced to inhale secondhand smoke whenever a smoker feels like indulging (and harming themselves but at least it’s their prerogative and mostly their problem except for the huge societal financial burden to treat them afterwards)

Also, this might sound weird in puritanical US but there really isn’t anything sordid about bars or restaurants in Europe. Some bars are more geared towards adults but most places are a mix of families and adults, taking your children with you to these venues doesn’t make you a bad parent and happens often.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#639

Post by ornornor »

LtWorf wrote: post #618
Kiro wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a waste of time? It has done wonders in Sweden.

Just because they risk the alcool license. In the bus stops nobody cares. In general, smokers aren't the most empathetic kind of people.

So why couldn’t this be done outside Sweden? AFAIK most countries require licensing for selling alcohol which some authority overviews and can withdraw when some laws are broken (serving alcohol to minors etc). Why wouldn’t it be possible to also lose your license if you allow smoking where it’s not permitted?

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#640

Post by cortic »

foobarbecue wrote: post #493
cortic wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere that banning smoking on planes lead to a lot of deep vein thrombosis cases, as they didn't need to swap the air out as much leading to higher c02 levels. But stupid shortsightedness aside; it was crazy, they needed to put the smokers (which was me at the time) at the back of the plane as that's the direction of the airflow inside, but the toilets were at the back so everyone had to walk through the s…

A carbon dioxide - DVT link? Sure sounds like bunk. Please be careful of spreading medical misinformation.

I can't find the original article, but from Wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_vein_thrombosis) [inflammation has been identified as playing a clear causal role] and studies(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20387988/) ironically tobacco studies, of 5% CO2 show an inflammatory response. Another poster here cited 3% was be the safe limit, so its feasible that turning the system off to save money could put the CO2 over 5% quite quickly. Also the concentration of oxygen is listed on Wikipedia as a direct cause of DVT, which would obviously be affected.
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