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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#631

Post by massinstall »

uup wrote: post #612
nonethewiser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older. 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. 2. There is nothing wrong with your kids being in a majority demographic. It sounds like you're more worried about the world discriminating based off race and other traits. I suspect you agree with all of this but it's a…

A single person can be diverse relative to a group, though. Like a black woman would add diversity to a group of white men, for instance. When we talk about diversity in recruiting, usually we mean diversity of the candidate relative to the makeup of the company.

Optically maybe, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Just assuming that the “group of white men” are “all the same” is not very deep. The truth is that they’re all individuals with individual stories strangers who judge them by their looks know nothing about. It used to be understood as a good thing to not judge people based on their gender or skin color, including the nowadays declared “evil” white men.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#632

Post by MisterBastahrd »

bioemerl wrote: post #297
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Get rid of all of them. Private schools are just legal segregation. Forcing rich people's kids to go to school with poor and average kids will give their parents a huge incentive to lobby for the increased quality of public schools. Lottery systems would make it even better. Education and healthcare being made available to everybody at the exact same availability and quality level would majorly improve both sys…

> Forcing rich people's kids to go to school with poor and average kids will ... Cause rich families to blanket refuse to live anywhere near neighborhoods with poor kids and contribute massively to the segregation between well off and impoverished neighborhoods. Just live in a place where every home in a 45 minute radius is over a million dollars to purchase.

That's why I said lottery systems. If they want to bus their kids 45 minutes to be stuck in the same school system, that's on them. I don't care.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#633

Post by Der_Einzige »

hintymad wrote: post #516
Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

I was wondering why the US is so obsessed with diversity alone the line of race and gender instead of social-economical status, education background, career background, and etc? If I'm developing a statistical model, wouldn't it make more sense if my diversity means having in my team people who have statistics background, people who study statistical physics, people who are great at maths, people who are great at bui…

Gebrus work was not especially impactful before the giant blowup about the Google paper.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#634

Post by massinstall »

gnerkus wrote: post #165
comex wrote: post #132

> You might imagine this policy doesn’t bias the hiring process, since managers are still free to choose who to hire after interviewing the diverse candidates. But because of the number of applicants, most are rejected based on their resumes. Imagine diversity candidates are 1% of the applicants but 15% of those interviewed. This gives those candidates opportunities to do well in interviews that their peers with simi…

How would this policy work for non-minority candidates who start with a disadvantage?

It doesn’t, and nobody in the DEI crowd cares about then. Some will likely even think that it’s great.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#635

Post by Der_Einzige »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #621
systemvoltage wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...

Third in "desirability for property developers", as if that were some kind of important metric for a city.

It is. Portland went from shockingly massively increasing home prices to declining home prices in no small part due to this.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#636

Post by georgeplusplus »

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

Is it the case that the rug was truly pulled out beneath you? Or was the system you thought to be advocating for was not equal as you thought.

So many people I know fall into the latter at least you are questioning how we got here.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#637

Post by Der_Einzige »

bradlys wrote: post #357
comex wrote: post #132

> You might imagine this policy doesn’t bias the hiring process, since managers are still free to choose who to hire after interviewing the diverse candidates. But because of the number of applicants, most are rejected based on their resumes. Imagine diversity candidates are 1% of the applicants but 15% of those interviewed. This gives those candidates opportunities to do well in interviews that their peers with simi…

> So minority candidates are given an advantage in getting their foot in the door, but still have to prove themselves qualified for the job by doing well in interviews. I’ve heard from diversity candidates who work at Microsoft and interview at other companies that this part isn’t even true. I’ve been on the hiring side and seen how it isn’t true too… The bar is truly different at all levels. Recruitment, interviewin…

Don't forget the financial incentives that were given to managers who hired "URMs" at Intel (under represented minorities). The bonus was pretty fat too.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#638

Post by telltruth »

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

There is a silver lining. This DEI thing is now causing massive influx of sub-par employees in big tech. This is not because minority is sub-par but because hiring practices incentivize sacrificing quality over diversity to make your numbers and get your bonuses. Everyone winks at others and they say we don't sacrifice quality but it is not possible when you have limited window for headcount and your VP is sending you constant reminders for making your numbers and everyones bonuses are at stake. In my estimate, big tech already had 60% of employees just costing around and now this DEI will push them to almost 80% employees that are mediocre and unable to compete with the best. This is how startups like Google and Microsoft were born that toppled big techs of the day called Yahoo and IBM. A lot of talent will simply not even get opportunity to be interviewed at big tech. Guess what they are going to do?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#639

Post by refurb »

nsxwolf wrote: post #456

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

The company knows it’s a lie too.

My friend had a company all hands where someone asked “Why does our company PAC give money to politicians with anti-diversity views?”.

The answer was a lot of handwaving but ended with “It’s good for business”.

It’s abundantly clear it’s all performative. Companies are happy to talk D&I all day long, but when it comes to the bottom line they are more than happy to drop it all if needed.

You’re smart to just play the game, because it is just a game.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#640

Post by pyuser583 »

Diversity and Inclusion are very different things.

You can do top down diversity. If you can hire or fire, you can increase diversity. Not easy, but doable.

Inclusion is a very different thing. After someone is hired, they have to be see their employer as an accepting place.

This is accomplished mostly by peer to peer interactions.

You can’t top-down force inclusion.

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