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The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

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Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#631

Post by bieh »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #305
bieh wrote: post #138

I moved to Lisbon in 2020, and I've become increasingly aware of the impact that high-income remote-worker immigrants like me are having on the city, and other similar places. I've been thinking of building something to try and help: https://www.reddit.com/r/PortugalExpats/comments/vy0i5r/crit... It's proved... controversial! I'd be interested to get HNs take.

You can't solve the issue unless you build (much) more housing. An app to donating to charity is like nothing. You have good intentions but it is what it is. And even if you build housing, you somehow need to reduce the induced demand.

Yeah, for sure. But I can't build houses (to the scale required), I can only build tech :)

Obviously this would 100% be a problem better solved by government. But I don't see any evidence that they're planning to do that, so ...

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#632

Post by unmole »

bowsamic wrote: post #618
unmole wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brexit refugee Hard cringe.

EDIT: shitter news won't let me post a reply so I will just delete my comment

> Why is that cringe?

Because words have meanings:

refugee

/rɛfjʊˈdʒiː/

noun

a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

Claiming to be a Brexit refugee when there are millions of actual refugees in Europe is cringey to say the least.

> Supposedly the economy is going to be downgraded from a developed economy to an "emerging market economy".

Anyone claiming that has no right to be taken seriously.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#633

Post by Tade0 »

andreilys wrote: post #443
DrNosferatu wrote: post #199

Very difficult to change because, in the "Pax Neoliberalia" world we live in, profits are Sacrosanct - and the higher the capital concentration, the holier so. But some straightforward fixes: 1. Flood the market with affordable state housing, Austria-style - with the bonus of building new, boosting the national economy. 2. Create very progressive (rapidly rising) taxes based on property value - making untenable the c…

Yes I’m sure inflation has everything to do with price gouging and nothing to do with the trillions of dollars printed by the Fed. Because of course, money printer go brrr with no repercussions right?

Essentially.

Looking at Switzerland, which printed a lot of money in the past years but still has low inflation and had mostly deflation over the same period, there isn't a simple connection between money supply and inflation.

Inflation isn't merely a monetary issue.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#634

Post by imsaw »

epolanski wrote: post #350
saiya-jin wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically every single capital is like that these days. People of all nations can copy paste same rant and it would be 100% valid. This is how it is, too much buying power with new generation of higher level office workers compared to blue collar ones, on top of financial speculation with either prices skyrocketing, or airbnbs. Let's not forget there is more and more of people in general, and more and more coming f…

I don't think I've ever heard the absurd levels of this blog post and I've lived in few expensive cities from italy, poland and switzerland, where it is impossible for middle class locals to live there.

Compared with the 2, how is Poland expensive?

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#635

Post by nik736 »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #532

The main problem in Portugal is a lack of wealth generation more than Housing. It doesn't matter if rents are curbed under 1k a month. The median under 25 earns less than 700 euros a month. I talk to people in Portugal and I hear more or less the same salary discussions and ranges for more than 20 years. It is a stagnant labour market for literally +20 years! When adjusted to inflation it becomes even more ludicrous.…

Well I think the strategy is to attract tech talent to have a tech hub which serves as the foundation for their future?

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#636

Post by llampx »

raverbashing wrote: post #556
personalidea wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is working to make its spot on the list. At least in the cities.

Given that rental laws in Germany can't even be broken if you buy a property for your own use ("in theory" yes but in practice...) it is not surprising why the traditional rental market is the last place someone will want to have their property Tenant protection is good, but it breaks down in high-demand situations. And of course the better solution is to solve this on the supply side

Meanwhile it is incredibly hard to build up or out in most German cities and towns due to lack of permits. Why aren't Baugenehmigungen given out? Well, landowners vote. Also, most politicians are landowners.

Lack of housing suits most people in power perfectly well. They get to control the populace through sops like the aborted rent control law Mietendeckel.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#637

Post by ssizn »

bowsamic wrote: post #618
unmole wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brexit refugee Hard cringe.

EDIT: shitter news won't let me post a reply so I will just delete my comment

>Many thousands are going to freeze to death in their homes this Christmas.

Unlike in Europe. Oh wait.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#638

Post by nottorp »

dougmwne wrote: post #16

Sounds like the Portuguese government should start building flats as fast as possible. Other countries in the EU do it and it works.

Dunno where it works. Prices are going through the roof everywhere in EU - and maybe the whole world - compared to wages.

Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed as there is only so much space to build on in the large urban centers everyone wants to be in.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#639

Post by killingtime74 »

rgmerk wrote: post #628

Portuguese can't afford to live in Lisbon for two reasons: 1) it's a nice city with nicer weather than most of the places within convenient travel range 2) the economy is remarkably unproductive, leaving Portguese people poorer than, say, Estonians, let alone Germans: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...

What struck me was this "There isn’t an average Portuguese who, even if earning two thousand euros a month — I don’t know anyone who earns that much". Thats only 24k USD a year!

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#640

Post by nottorp »

llanowarelves wrote: post #477
joshlemer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.6k euros per... month?

Always bugs me that Europeans use the word "salary" to mean monthly payments when in the US it defaults to meaning yearly.

So it bugs us that you mean yearly and still measure things in elbows to the hoghead. Live with it.
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