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“Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

nature.com

631–640 of 883 posts

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#631
post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do when someone says "Women are inferior because the Sun shines?"

Regardless of the rest of this conversation, we should at least ban the publishing of obvious bullshit with no attempt to establish causality as science. This is in that category. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here.

My point: All justifications of oppression are non-causal nonsense like this. I just made an obvious example that is easy to look through.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we need Big Brother to protect us from facts that will harm us.

We need the government to protect us from a lot of things that can harm us.

The next step then is the government deciding what will harm us, so we can be protected. And then you got a very nice little fascist country that runs perfectly, and the trains run on time to move all those harmful people away from where good people live. Out of sight, out of mind.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#633

This is in Nature Human Behavior. This is a social science/psychology journal, a field which is suffering from the reproducibility crisis, perhaps worse than any other field. So, any result in this field should be viewed with significant skepticism. This is true for research into population group differences, and extremely true for IQ research into race, which is almost hopelessly noisy and confounded. It is a simple…

> Second, research results in population group differences are social poison. They are memetic viruses that fuel violent extremism. The murderer of 10 people in Buffalo directly cited human behavior research in his manifesto. Extremist racist groups regularly discuss this research. This is a fact.

Am I paraphrasing correctly: "Some bad people react badly to research results in this field, so there should be no research in this field" ?

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this "pure white supremacy"? That's an easy one. America has had a couple of centuries of systemic racism keeping majority-black communities poor, uneducated, and not particularly fearful of prison (relative to majority-white communities). When you combine that poverty with an easy opportunity to loot something valuable in a situation where there's a perception of not being caught due to the chaos, people will…

Guess what keeps those black neighbourhoods poor? Lack of progressive taxation, which also impacts poor people of all other colors as well, including whites. Many Americans are obsessed with race, but really the main source of inequality is money these days. Fix the money issue and all poor people will benefit, including minorities. Take more money from the rich and use it to fund public services, education regardles…

The US media scream racism and BLM all day so people blame whites, not politicians for their poverty.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#635

"Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic." If it's good research, then it shouldn't have any of these biases. Stigmatization and restrictions of rights is a policy issue. Science is not policy . I think we need to promote this separation more. Too often I see "but the study…

This. That editorial and its new policies might be justified, but it is definitely a watershed.

The old model was: scientists discover facts about the world, politicians/society decide what to do with these facts.

This new policy undermines the separation of descriptive (purely factual) and prescriptive, normative (infused with value judgements) statements.

Should physicists and engineers worry about whether a discovery they make could be used for new weapons?

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This should be handled with care, and extra consideration should be given to whether the tenuous, fallible results from this research will result in violence. What is "results in violence" though? One person's violence would be another person's justice. I think trans activism with kids is a severe violence. Would research in allowing transgenderism for children be considered violence or not in your eyes? I'm sure t…

Well words like "transgenderism" don't even mean anything and are just far-right buzzwords to scare people like you, so consider first looking into what's informing your worldview. It's certainly not anything approaching objectivity

I can name a specific dogma of transgenderism: That gender is more than performing (like an actor on the stage) an arbitrary set of gender ideals.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen several videos of entirely black crowds looting stores. How is this Trump's fault? How is this "pure white supremacy"?

How is this "pure white supremacy"? That's an easy one. America has had a couple of centuries of systemic racism keeping majority-black communities poor, uneducated, and not particularly fearful of prison (relative to majority-white communities). When you combine that poverty with an easy opportunity to loot something valuable in a situation where there's a perception of not being caught due to the chaos, people will…

>It's simply that you've grown up in a society where white people are literally considered superior. The white supremacy is all around you. You don't notice it in the same way you don't notice the air you breathe. When someone points it out though, you should probably listen at least, even if you choose not to act.

I'm Bulgarian. We've been slaves longer than the trans-atlantic slave trade existed. Up until 45 years ago we were a puppet state of the USSR with zero political rights. Don't fucking lecture me how privileged I am. And you'll notice that despite being significantly poorer than even poor Americans, we don't riot and loot and burn buildings every time there is a political controversy.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The textile industry was being industrialized - but it wasn't being operated by slaves. An educated workforce is needed to operate industrial machinery, and it was illegal to teach slaves to read. Industrialization and slavery are incompatible. Forced labor has never been able to compete with free labor.

I guess my point is that industrialization doesn't/didn't occur uniformly across entire industries; some aspects of industries were mechanized before others, temporarily increasing demand for manual labor in the per-industrialized segments to keep up with the machines. Textile factories create demand for field workers, steel mills and steam engines create demand for coal miners, railways create demand for workers tha…

I seriously doubt slaves would have been profitable for the western railway. Blasting tunnels was very skilled work, and very dangerous. Would you want slaves, who hated your guts, handling nitroglycerin? You'd need as many armed guards as slaves.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#639

This is in Nature Human Behavior. This is a social science/psychology journal, a field which is suffering from the reproducibility crisis, perhaps worse than any other field. So, any result in this field should be viewed with significant skepticism. This is true for research into population group differences, and extremely true for IQ research into race, which is almost hopelessly noisy and confounded. It is a simple…

IQ tests are also unreliable by design. They might work once, but you get different results depending on the test subject was challenged by questions and problems of similar design. Highlighting that fact would be helpful and expose such tests as nothing but maybe a rough estimate. Your education is probably more important for that than your capacity to solve problems. Additionally those that focus on these numbers s…

> IQ tests are also unreliable by design.

I doubt that they are specifically designed to be unreliable.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#640
post #541

This is in Nature Human Behavior. This is a social science/psychology journal, a field which is suffering from the reproducibility crisis, perhaps worse than any other field. So, any result in this field should be viewed with significant skepticism. This is true for research into population group differences, and extremely true for IQ research into race, which is almost hopelessly noisy and confounded. It is a simple…

If extremely sexist groups were discussing PCOS as proof of the inferiority of women, would it therefore be a good idea to assess all research involving ovaries and refuse to publish anything that made PCOS seem harmful?

In case you didn't know, like me:

Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is a hormonal disorder common among women of reproductive age.

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