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Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

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Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#631

Post by internet_user »

mullingitover wrote: post #583
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more genetically similar we are, the more socially valuable the relative differences become.

It depends on the difference, because genetic differences aren't always beneficial. The Hapsburg Dynasty's Charles II famously had an inherited birth defect due to the heavy inbreeding[1] among the ruling class, for example. It was of no value to anyone. The true reason for valuing lineages is more about social rank/class protectionism. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/distinctive-habsbu...

The value of that intermarriage was ability to maintain an empire of significant power and influence, as well balance relationships with nearby royals, who were all cousins.

"no value" here is probably in tens, maybe hundreds of trillions of dollars in the present time PPP basis.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#632

Post by ookblah »

yomkippur wrote: post #629
ookblah wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just want to add that you do a dis-service for calling out feminism in korea without providing some context. decades of treating women basically as second class citizens or worse with no outlet "created" this environment. there's an equally large incel base in korea and we can argue to death who "started" it first, but history has shown it's usually the men heh. this doesn't excuse or condone the toxicity, but this b…

> decades of treating women basically as second class citizens or worse with no outlet "created" this environment. you mean like japan? what about US where women have unfair advantages? so your solution is for those women to marry you right? where do you get this idea that a culture "treats women like shit"? if anything telling women to whore themselves to rich men inject drugs and kill their fetuses seem to me like…

uh what? my solution is for women to do whatever the hell they want with their lives with no expectation of what they "should" be doing? i get this idea based on the struggles that i hear women around me going through.

i honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make lol. none of it addresses what i said.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#633

Post by random314 »

random314 wrote: post #622
rayiner wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think genetics don't matter? Depending on the study, IQ heritability is between 60-80%.

Heritability includes both nurture and nature(genetic). There is no real way to separate nature and nurture in these studies. For eg, if you take Einstein's kid and let wolves raise him, we can expect the kids IQ to be somewhat lower. I would guess IQ is primarily genetic, but these heritability studies don't show that.

Just found this very rare and valuable data point.

https://www.newsweek.com/identical-twins-raised-apart-differ...

There was a 16 point IQ difference between twins. Nurture had a strong impact on IQ in this case.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#634

Post by mensetmanusman »

imtringued wrote: post #382
jxramos wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That slogan has caught my eye too—the future belongs to those who show up. I’ve been thinking about these things in terms of generational investment. To pour time and resources etc into oneself is an investment in generation 0 with respect to the individual. If our societies don’t encourage investment in generations beyond 0 (ie in our children) then they effectively vote their genetics and those of their ancestors t…

>If our societies don’t encourage investment in generations beyond 0 (ie in our children) then they effectively vote their genetics and those of their ancestors to be not worthy of continuing. Societies with more investment per child have less children. You are getting everything backwards.

An investment that scares the next generation from having kids is a failed investment.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#635

Post by mensetmanusman »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #501
missedthecue wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to bribe a police officer in the US next time you get pulled over at a traffic stop. Try to bribe the immigration officer at any US airport. My congressman's office didn't even let me give him a small non-cash thank you gift basket when he resolved a very sensitive and urgent administrative matter with my visa.

I'm more concerned that a congressman was able to "fix" an issue with a visa than I am with someone taking bribes. Bribes implies quid pro quo. Someone who can "fix" some implies an exclusive network of favors traded with no record.

One might be vastly underestimating the corrosion that bribes bring.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#636

Post by dsq »

midoridensha wrote: post #608
dsq wrote: post #441

I read so many comments here trying to make having zero kids into some kind of FU to the system. While what will eventually happen is professional families birthing and raising as many children as the state and corporations need, making the regular nuclear family obsolete. It will also make the family superfluous, enabling govt to completely disregard it.

"Brave New World" shows what the future is going to look like. Honestly, it looks like a better society than the ones we have now.

It sounds dystopian until one recognizes that things seems pretty much so already.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#637

Post by mensetmanusman »

swat535 wrote: post #569
TbobbyZ wrote: post #92

I have 3 kids with one due at the end of the year. All are from the same woman and we’ve known each other since being teenagers. We are planning to have 5-7 total. They really add a richness to life. It’s fun to see people stare when we go out.

My fiance (soon to be wife) and I are both devout Catholics, having children is a gift for us. We won't be using contraception after we are married, only NFP (or abstain) and if she gets pregnant, then it's a cause for celebration by both the community and our families. We have average jobs and no one in our extended family is rich either, yet they all had many kids. The truth is that having children requires a lot o…

Surprised to see NFP mentioned on HN, good for you! We have 6 and practice as well:)

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#638

Post by BeFlatXIII »

mjh2539 wrote: post #626
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ex and I split over this issue. She wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and "the kids can take out loans like me if they choose to go to college." I wasn't going to bother with children unless I could reasonably guarantee all the benefits to my children that my parents provided me (a.k.a. covering a significant portion of my college expenses).

I mean, if things are anything like they are now, they'll end up paying $100/mo on a salary of ~$130,000 to cover the cost of $70,000 in loans that are going to get written off by the federal government in ten more years. (The fact that my wife does not work and we have two children obviously brings down the monthly rate to a significant degree). It's not exactly the incredible expense some folks imagine it to be; it…

These were also decisions made about 6 or 7 years ago when forgiveness after a decade of $100/mo payments was a reasonable expectation.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#639

Post by sacrosancty »

midoridensha wrote: post #459
sacrosancty wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there ever been a society in history that was so bad that "women afraid of bringing a child into such society." was a thing? In the very short term, sure, but forever?

Women have only had the ability to reliably avoid pregnancy for a little over 50 years now. You can't look at history for this one.

If you'll allow me to shift the goalposts, then it was men deciding to have kids. Has there ever been a society where men thought the world was too terrible to puts kids into? Assuming men and women have similar interest in the quality of life of their children, it should be the same feeling among women.

Of course women have all sorts of other reasons for not having kids, which they'll be using to actually have fewer kids, but imagining that they'll suffer from the bad world doesn't sound like a real reason and more of a political statement to make it look like they're very concerned about the popular worries about the world.

Re: Korea shatters its own record for world’s lowest fertility rate

#640

Post by jxramos »

rayiner wrote: post #630
jxramos wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been curious how Amy Coney Barret and her husband pulled it off. She definitely has it all, staggering.

She lives in a Catholic faith community in South Bend. There’s lots of kids of all ages and so always people around to babysit, etc. It’s like my dad described his village in Bangladesh. Nobody takes care of their kid all the time like in America. (The women have to go into the rice fields during the day too.) The kids get passed around.

That's fascinating. I'm starting to awaken to the fact that America has a bunch of expensive solutions to problems and create these impressions that there is no other practical way. People figure out stuff all the time but somehow those means never become communicated to become mainstream or even purported as an alternative. It's interesting to put ideas to the "but does it scale" test. I think that idea of individual parents fully monitoring their kids maybe doesn't scale when the kids begin to outnumber the parents. Interesting stuff to ponder.
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