Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

ottawacitizen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

631–640 of 1001 posts

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#631

Post by Banana699 »

abledon wrote: post #474
tw600040 wrote: post #436

When protests were happening in India this is what Trudeau had to say: "Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the rights of peaceful protesters. We believe in the process of dialogue. We’ve reached out through multiple means to the Indian authorities to highlight our concerns. This is a moment for all of us to pull together,"Justin Trudeau said. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-…

was it only the 10% fringe farmers protesting? or the 90% majority of farmers?

Protests are only legitimate if they have more than 10% percent of the population?

So, for instance, no gay pride demonstration was ever a legitimate protest?

Some revolutions were carried out by less than that percentage.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#632

Post by TeeMassive »

nkrisc wrote: post #606
sul_tasto wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me both pro-choice advocates and Canadian truckers are saying, “Get your laws off my body.” The idea that a person belongs to herself or himself is fundamental to both arguments.

The stakes are clearly different. Pregnancy doesn't endanger others. There's very good arguments for mandating vaccines against infectious diseases. I think debating mandated vaccinations with regards to the realistic likelihood of eradicating a disease is a debate that can be had, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. The common good must be weighed against individual liberty. Even here in America, the land of…

Fundamental rights are legal absolutes that can only be negated by other rights or the a threat to the existence of the state itself that is supposed to defend these rights (e.g. war).

The problem is, there are no rights to be healthy and not to catch a respiratory disease and the virus doesn't threaten the existence of the state with a 0.05% mortality rate in old and sick people.

> I, for one, am honored to give up some liberties so that I may help others.

I'm not sure to decide if you're a troll or not.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#633

Post by listenallyall »

Jackim wrote: post #54
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

Everything can be classified as "critical infrastructure" if your goal is to shut down a protest justified due to "blocking critical infrastructure".

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#634

Post by gruez »

mrtksn wrote: post #618
version_five wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there is a better place to reply to this sentiment (which I find very difficult to believe is genuine) but threatening people with their livelihoods and their participation in society is just as much "forcing" as threatening with violence. We're a first world country, don't pretend forcing someone means holding a physical gun to their head

So they are not trying to vaccinate them against their will but it’s more like the driver’s license thingy, i.e. you can’t drive on public roads if you don’t have a license? If that’s the case why isn’t worded like that?

If you earn below a certain amount income and don't buy and taxed goods, then you're not paying any taxes. Given this, can you say the government isn't confiscating people's money "against their will", because you can theoretically avoid it by staying under the income tax limit and only buying tax-exempt items?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#635

Post by mrtksn »

TeeMassive wrote: post #615
mrtksn wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>Are they actually catching the truckers and injecting them vaccines against their will Nobody said that. You're making a straw man argument. There ware other ways to force than a physical strength and threats of violence. In Canada if you lose your job because of a vaccine mandates you can't claim unemployment benefits or welfare. I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult.

If nobody is saying that why they are saying that the vaccines are forced against their will?

Would the right wording be something like crossing borders regularly in professional capacity requires vaccination? That’s quite different from being forced.

Can someone clarify please? Are they forced against their will or are they required vaccination if they are willing to partake in a certain task like crossing international borders?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#636

Post by Banana699 »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

>It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets.

What did they do to terrorize those identities specifically and what did/do they benefit from it?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#637

Post by maronato »

thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

To live in a society we must agree to a social contract in which personal freedoms may be limited if that benefits society as a whole. That's why we pay taxes, have laws, and respect each other.

Here, it's important to understand that vaccines do much more than protect a singe trucker from getting sick. It makes the population more resistant to the disease and lowers the infection rate. Low infection rates keep people who really can't be vaccinated safer. And, perhaps most importantly, it lowers the chance of dangerous mutations from developing and being selected.

Truckers that refuse to vaccinate are making a choice that affects all of us. It's not up to them to allow the pandemic to continue forever.

With all of that said, I hope that it's also clear why we can't compare the decision to not get vaccinated with the choice of getting an abortion.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#638

Post by YZF »

version_five wrote: post #596
thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

I think at some level most people know this, certainly Trudeau. But it's much easier to get what you want by pushing the narrative that these are racist, conspiracy theorists who think that vaccines have microchips or whatever other stuff gullible canadians actually believe people think. In my province, we have to show our "vaccine pass" to go to the liquor store, the hardware store, I don't know what else, I dont go…

At least some were flying confederate flags...

Well, in my province it's not a problem. There you prove point #1, this is not a federal issue. What province are you in? In my province leaders aren't pushing tighter restrictions.

It doesn't matter what your grievances are, you don't get to park your truck in the middle of the street and break the law. Not in this country. Whether they "right" or "wrong" doesn't even factor into this.

I think, and so has most of the population during this pandemic, that Canada did a great job balancing public health with the needs of individuals. Ofcourse this varies province to province but as a whole. Better than many other places.

There is no "state compelled vaccination". The right to cross the border while not being subject to any restriction is not a god given right. But you don't want to get vaccinated, great, don't drive your truck across the border. For most of the pandemic truckers were allowed freely across the border while others (like me) were not with no quarantine or vaccine requirements. As Delta rose to dominance the rules changed (the change happened Nov 18th, 2021!).

I wouldn't even rule out state compelled vaccinations for all under some scenarios.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#639

Post by Tiktaalik »

daenz wrote: post #353
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

Omicron may be "mild" to healthy, vaccinated people, but it's a serious, deadly health threat to the unvaccinated elderly.

Accordingly places where transmission is likely (eg. a small intimate restaurant) are serious and potentially deadly health risks to the elderly, unvaccinated part of the population.

So long as our hospitals are overwhelmed (as they currently are) it's a very bad idea to open up these high transmission areas to unvaccinated people, as they'll inevitably catch the disease and are so much more likely to end up in the hospital in ICU.

This is why restaurants/bars/etc should continue to have vaccine mandates even though so many people are vaccinated.

The point isn't to coerce the last 10% into getting vaccinated. It's to protect the hospitals from being overwhelmed by new cases from the unvaccinated.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#640

Post by rpeden »

digianarchist wrote: post #152
650 wrote: post #18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_rai... "Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said politicians should not be telling the police how to deal with protesters and that resolution should come through dialogue" Millions of dollars in damage by these protestors (railway above). Protests for me, but not for thee. Vaguely remember stuff like: "Your right to freedom of speech stops where it harms others" (hat…

We don’t have a constitution. We have a loophole ridden document that allows each Premier in the nation to disregard Charter Rights via the Notwithstanding Clause. It’s time for Canada to rewrite the Constitution and to enshrine some inalienable rights and freedoms.

Good luck with the rewrite - Meech Lake and Charlottetown showed that getting the consensus needed for constitutional amendment won't be easy.

You might also find that Canadians as a whole want a balance between public order and individual freedom that tilts more toward the public order end of the spectrum than you'd like.

Post reply on HN