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I got pwned by my cloud costs

troyhunt.com

631–640 of 657 posts

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Oracle cloud is still shenanigan free in 2 decades, I’ll consider it. Until then, Oracle gets $0 of any budget I’m in charge of.

The Oracle cloud UI is extremely slow and terrible to work with. I'd prefer shenanigans every so often than having to deal with that crap on a daily basis.

Kind of funny, for me it's faster then Amazon.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#632
post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a business setting, you want your service to stay up, at the cost of spike in costs if accidents or mistakes happen. No you don’t. This is absolutely not a given. Being a “business” doesn’t mean you suddenly have unlimited budget. The vast majority of businesses are not “web scale” and are better off taking an availability outage than suddenly handling 1,000,000x the normal volume of traffic.

I'd say that it definitely depends on the business. If you are selling you product via your web site and you're suddenly on TV with millions watching and accessing your site, you definitely don't want the server to go downand autoscaling + a bit higher cost would be great.

Not if you’re selling a real product. The only world where people can scale from 1000 orders a day to a million orders a day overnight is one where you’re not selling anything physical.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#633
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re expanding this clause past what it says. The clause prohibits you from using Lightsail to cheat other services. So, per their example, you couldn’t set up a Lightsail instance as a reverse proxy between the internet and an ELB, to take advantage of Lightsail’s higher transfer quotas and “in-region” traffic from Lightsail to ELBs. Hosting a site on Lightsail and hosting other things on other AWS service…

I am not the OP. The terms indicate you cannot use it to proxy traffic to bypass bandwidth costs. The grandparent comment suggested using Lightsail to do this, and it is a violation of the TOS. The parent comment, however, stipulated that you are not allowed to use Lightsail at all, which is indeed wrong. I was just posting the relevant portion of the TOS which applies to the grandparent comment, and clarifies on the…

Thank you for the correction! Second time I made this claim but always forget it’s just about the traffic…

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#634
post #450
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, what is the advantage of Cloudflare over Fastly or Akamai if caching is not your biggest priority? Does Cloudflare have better DDoS protection, or something else?

Yes among other things. Also edge compute, etc. Fastly comes close on a lot of fronts (and does better at a few things) but unless you are godlike with Varnish scripting it's a lot harder to make it do what you want than Cloudflare.

Thanks this is really helpful, I'm planning a delicate migration to a CDN and it's a tough choice. Cloudflare just seems like "an everything machine" from their marketing website, I'm struggling to understand how I would actually use it for a monolithic website + API.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#635
post #634
post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes among other things. Also edge compute, etc. Fastly comes close on a lot of fronts (and does better at a few things) but unless you are godlike with Varnish scripting it's a lot harder to make it do what you want than Cloudflare.

Thanks this is really helpful, I'm planning a delicate migration to a CDN and it's a tough choice. Cloudflare just seems like "an everything machine" from their marketing website, I'm struggling to understand how I would actually use it for a monolithic website + API.

It is pretty much an "everything machine". I think they are positioning themselves as a platform alternative to having a separate origin + CDN. i.e you develop your entire application with Workers + Durable Objects + R2.

As a CDN it's pretty great though, I have managed very very large properties behind Cloudflare and they have always gone above and beyond for us when big DDoS have came our way.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#636
post #18

Interestingly, Troy says that egress is expensive on Azure at $0.014 AUD/gB (~$0.010 USD/gB), but that is the same price as additional egress for Linode and DO, and Linode egress has never struck me as expensive. In fact, I’m kind of shocked (as an AWS user) that Azure egress is the same price as Linode. Actually, wow it seems AWS is also the same price as Linode and DO for egress. While Linodes and DO do come with d…

You’ve interpreted the numbers wrong. Yes, Linode, DigitalOcean, and most of this class of providers charge $0.01/GB. Almost literally an order of magnitude less than Azure or AWS. The megaclouds massively overcharge for bandwidth. It’s not even close. AWS charges $0.09/GB, and Azure charges $0.0875/GB. Maybe Troy Hunt gets a discount for being a Microsoft Regional Director and MVP. (Neither of which make him an empl…

Ah weird. I was on some AWS page that said the cost was $0.01/gB, which threw me off as seeking ridiculous compared to what I remembered. Not sure what page it was, but clearly that is not the actual pricing.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#637
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, auto-scaling comes with this problem, but at least you removed one extra service/point of failure.

That's assuming you trust Linode block storage as much as you trust S3.

Trust in what sense? Uptime, security, privacy? I am not sure whether I can say I trust one or another, by personally I had a good experience with VPS/dedicated server providers, more than with cloud (AWS/GCP).

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#638
post #590
post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't disagree; but I think the cloud (AWS/Azure/GCP) have sort of shielded people from how cheap/powerful the underlying hardware has became. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I do find myself often surprised to realize that for a younger generation of developers they have never experienced hosting on bare metal. So they have not been exposed to costs & benefits vs. the cloud approach and feel that no local…

As a software developer, I think the best thing about the cloud is knowing that if you need the capacity, and it makes sense cost-wise, you'll get it. In-house servers might be cheap, but in my experience it could be incredibly hard to get that money spent when it's needed, and I've seen companies throw expensive software engineering time at optimizing software when it would have been much cheaper to solve the proble…

To give you an example - we run quite a lot of workloads on Azure app service, which isn't the same as bare metal, but does allow serious scaling if required.

We run most workloads on a 3.5GB/2 "vCPU" box. This costs around $70/month per instance. We actually haven't scaled this out past 8 instances, at a cost of $560/month (and that has been extremely rare).

On bare metal we could have ran it on a $100/month 16core/128GB box and always had that capacity in reserve. While app service gives a lot of benefits, the scalability argument is somewhat moot as basically you can provision all the capacity you would scale to 24/7 and still the same/less than cloud.

Maybe it's just the projects I've worked on, but I haven't really ever seen people require 100x or 1000x the capacity in a very short period of time (which obviously bare metal could not do). I've seen traffic grow that much - but generally over weeks, months or years.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#639

Ah the old cloud provider switcheroo. Yip this is the way they make money. They make it easy to setup some gigantic hugely scalable website then hit you with a gigantic scaled up bill. AWS would do this as well. Team I'm in at the moment is in the early stages of cloud adoption but the company in total has fell hook line and sinker for AWS. When I mentioned the cost there is always an excuse. The main one being that…

There's an argument to be made for quality of life for your employees. As someone who has transitioned from on-prem server management to mainly cloud work, my job happiness has skyrocketed. I haven't set foot in a data center in three years and I do not miss it one bit. Dealing with hardware failures, hardware vendors, confusing licensing, having to know SKUs, racking new cabinets, swapping hard drives, patching serv…

> Dealing with hardware failures, hardware vendors, confusing licensing, having to know SKUs, racking new cabinets, swapping hard drives, patching servers - it's all awful work.

Each to their own, but I think you'll find there's a fairly significant portion of sysadmins who love that work!

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#640
post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Troy Hunt is a person focusing on security, not infrastructure, deployments or development even. If anyone is near making that mistake, it's people like Troy Hunt. Operators would of course see the problem easily (paying for bandwidth like that would be the first warning sign), while they are sometimes blind to other issues, like security.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Troy Hunt is a person focusing on security, not infrastructure, deployments or development even. Eh, I don't know - either way he is a Microsoft Regional Director and MVP for Cloud (as well as security), runs courses on cloud deployment on Pluralsight, and has done speeches on Azure and reducing cloud bills, so if a he can get stung it doesn't say a whole lot good about my chances.

Thanks for the correction :) I had no idea he did all of those things in addition to the security work. Certainly doesn't paint Azure or him in a good light then.
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