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Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

arstechnica.com

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Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#631

Post by zerocount »

betwixthewires wrote: post #583
can16358p wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more like as things get more complex, there are many more edge cases to check and most are very unlikely to happen statistically/practically so manufacturers don't put enough thinkin/design effort in those "details". Until, of course, it does.

I don't buy it. They're literally engineering shit people don't need now. In virtually every product. And doing UI redesigns on things that change the user friendly UX, often breaking it. I remember looking forward to browser updates, OS updates, the next generation hardware whatever. Things used to actually get better. I actually got a new phone the other day with a newer android version, never mind that there's a f…

I agree. My theory is that this is all 'busy' work. For some reason or another, there's just nothing else for the employees to do.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#633

Post by unobatbayar »

bigiain wrote: post #413
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not The fact that the front doors both unlock when a single handle is pulled is because there's an electronic sensor and solenoid that unlocks everything when one handle is opened. I had a Pontiac Vibe (really a Toyota Matrix) that had a cable in the door unlock assembly fail. You could open the door from the outside - the external door handle was physi…

> Regardless, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an automotive engineer might decide to replace cable actuator with a wire and solenoid. Or with a bunch of CANBUS electromechanical hardware and some shittily written software running on the entertainment unit (with insecure cellular network connectivity). I wonder how long before someone sets up unlockyourtoyota.ru where you can send them 0.01BTC to unloc…

> unlockyourtoyota.ru

The fact that it's a russian site made my day. Russian hackers man...

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#634

Post by DocTomoe »

xyst wrote: post #35
zeroflow wrote: post #6

That is just bullshit. A $8/mo charge for a app based remote start? I could live with that. Servers need power, the app needs updates etc. A $8/mo charge for something which does not incur costs for Toyota? Hell no. It seems like bit by bit - every single industry is going down a fucked up route. TVs with built in ads? Cars with pay-by-month features? DRM locked coffee machines? I really hope, there is some sort of e…

If the Apple Car actually materializes, I fear this will become the new standard. All cars come with all bells and whistles, but you have to pay monthly fees in order for them to function. - Want heated seats? $1/month - Want remote lock/unlock? $2/month - Want to remove rate limiting? $5/month - Want GPS in your car? $10/month - Want to use your "frunk"? $10/month - Want Apple CarPlay? $15/month - Want to activate h…

> Public will buy into it because the cost of the car is significantly less than their competition.

That's not the Apple Way. Cost will be significantly higher than the competition, but it comes with a shiny, large apple on the engine hatch, and celebrities will make it a lifestyle choice product. Having an AppleCar will be the economically and technologically inferior, but socially "more acceptable" option.

And by then, people will have conveniently forgot normal gas stations/electric chargers won't work - gotta get to the premium-priced Apple fuel stations with the proprietary gas pumps/electric connectors. Users will eventually believe those are better quality, too, and when Apple finally is forced to adapt back to standards by legislative bodies, they will sell this as a "huge innovation".

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#636

Post by account42 »

phkahler wrote: post #109
lkozma wrote: post #8

was posted here sometime ago: The door refused to open. It said, "Five cents, please." He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. "I'll pay you tomorrow," he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. "What I pay you," he informed it, "is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you." "I think otherwise," the door said. "Look in the purchase contract you signed when you boug…

Reminds me of this tragic but true story about a man and his dog that died in a Corvette because the door failed to open electronically. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/te... If your car door uses electricity to open, you best know what to do when that system fails. Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door.

> Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door.

Death should not occur due to failure to design a door that can be opened from the inside in all situations without reading any manual.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#637

Post by Yaggo »

adrr wrote: post #270
matthewdgreen wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$8/mo is genuinely a lot of money for this kind of infrastructure, even if there are developers and servers to be paid for. Assume that there are only 100,000 users. This would imply $9.6M per year in revenue to cover infrastructure and dev salaries for a system that handles ~2 queries/day/customer! And 100,000 is a very small number. Presumably Toyota has millions of customers. If you think that's reasonable, consid…

Do they also push ads in their app like Tesla? Like referrals or upgrades? Seems to me like they are fleecing the owners.

Tesla app does not have ads. There's a sub-menu where you can buy upgrades, but those are not promoted or anyhow popping up.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#638

Post by krolley »

nyx wrote: post #196

This is such a sleazy game to play, and it looks to be getting more popular as corporations realize the average consumer just accepts it. Zero Motorcycles, the longest-standing electric motorcycle manufacturer, has announced for their 2022 flagship models that things like battery capacity and charge rate will be gated behind one-time in-app purchases, which is mind-boggling. Having to lug around batteries you can't c…

Eh, wouldn't the extra weight just degrade the battery performance and maybe the ride handling? If you're considering a new bike, it's like (note these are made up, I have no idea about Zero motorcycles):

- Premium/unlocked Zero: 30k -- range 200km -- handling: excellent

- locked Zero: 25k -- range 150k -- handling: average

These are one physical bike but with two prices and characteristics, and can be judged accordingly. If your budget is 25k you price the locked Zero against other bikes in the same budget.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#639

Post by salawat »

tw04 wrote: post #502
Symbiote wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're half dazed from a collision and the car is on fire, will your scared but unhurt 11 year old son know where this hidden lever is? I did, on a 1980s car, since it was the normal door handle.

Hidden? It’s directly below where the “oh shit” handle is on the door, you need to move your hand less than 6” to pull it. Calling it hidden is completely misrepresenting reality. If my 7 year old knows where it is and insists on using it to open the door, I hope your 11 year old can figure it out.

Principe of least surprise.

Humans expect tools to be at arm height. Do not work against natural assumptions. If you increase cognitive load, that's that much more attention diverted in a state where attention is already maxed out or otherwise in shortage.

It can be the difference between life and death.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#640

Post by iso1631 »

account42 wrote: post #636
phkahler wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of this tragic but true story about a man and his dog that died in a Corvette because the door failed to open electronically. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/te... If your car door uses electricity to open, you best know what to do when that system fails. Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door.

> Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door. Death should not occur due to failure to design a door that can be opened from the inside in all situations without reading any manual.

I assume that if my battery was flat, pulling the handle on the inside would open it. I'm not at all sure though, it's been nearly over a decade since the last time I had a lock which you pushed up and down.

I have a emergency hammer/seatbelt cutter near the gearstick just in case.

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