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A generation of American men give up on college

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Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#631
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company is only hiring black engineers or women. You have no chance if you are a white man and don’t have an in.

It's not as extrem for me, but I was told by HR that all female/non-white applicants had to move automatically to the phone screen step, regardless of the resume.

I assume Chinese and Indians are not included in "non-white"?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother in law is an electrician. I had enough EE in college to change a light switch without burning the house down. However, that book-learnin' fell apart when confronted with troubleshooting a strangely wired room, and I got very polite while asking him over to bail me out. These fellows eschewing the ivory tower, where being of European extraction and bearing a Y-chromosome on the college campus is an indictme…

> all the Grievance Studies major Area, ethnic, cultural, gender, and group studies (I'm assuming "Grievance Studies" falls under this category), at least in the US, have been in steady decline since 2008, and even at their peak only accounted for 0.5% of majors (now just 0.3%). Even if you want to add in humanities in general that has gone from 3% to just above 2% The idea that college campuses are ever more filled…

I really appreciate this kind of discussion: data driven, narrative free. I'm very sad to see that giving up facts for narratives accelerates the decline of the US.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't match up with my experience as an interviewer at several FAANGs. HR typically wants their diversity numbers up badly so if you're gay, a woman, and/or black they are already incredibly inclined to hire you, as long as you pass the interviews. It's not a walk in the park, but you have this going for you and it's a big advantage imo.

> long as you pass the interviews. 40 applications and 2 resume consultations later and no interview even offered. Meanwhile, some guy you run circles around in real world programming/business experience is 8 for 10. My white classmates noticed this before I did because I’ve just accepted it as part of life.

Referrals is the secret sauce. Those 8/10 guys don't just send resumes to the public company address.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#634
post #596

“Young men get little help, in part, because schools are focused on encouraging historically underrepresented students. Jerlando Jackson, department chair, Education Leadership and Policy Analysis, at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Education, said few campuses have been willing to spend limited funds on male underachievement that would also benefit white men, risking criticism for assisting those who have hi…

Men don't complain. It's not the male biological imperative. Consider modern "feminists" and their obesity-is-fine propaganda. No man complains about male underwear models being very fit and handsome. If anything, men want to become like them.

How is that a biological imperative and not just another form of social conditioning?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#635

Brit here, in my 50's. Everyone should - or ought - to receive a good general level of education at GCSEs (i.e. 14/15 year old). Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, English, etc.. You'll know a fair bit about these subjects if you study for them in school. Very few people actually "need" training beyond that; although I would of course expect my doctor to know rather more than what's in a biology GCSE. My former boss of…

It's basically hidden increase in standard of living - people used to join workforce at 18-19, now they do it a couple years later, after getting their degree. It means a couple years less of work and a couple more years of fun/partying. In the few countries (US, UK, anything else?) where Universities aren't nearly free, that's kind of a deal with the Devil (as J. Peterson called it), but everywhere else it's basically a free improvement in quality of life.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#636
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. This. We are seeing the results of what was reported in the book Boys Adrift . My older son just graduated high school. He has no interest in college at the moment, and has shown a gift for working with his hands. He is currently doing a carpentry apprenticeship with an acquaintance that runs a renovation and design company.…

> [0] His crew is run by Swedish woman who was trained as a metal worker, so it isn't just a bunch of dudes, which is also great. I find it fascinating you needed to drop this comment in order to justify your son's work environment, implying that all male environments are inherently toxic. It's very rare to find people suggesting that an all female work environment is inherently bad.

I thought the same. It gets a little tiresome the very narrow railroad tracks of thought we are now expected to adhere to on any given topic. Any minor diversion always require some statement to imply "hey Im still on the railroad tracks..."

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My observations are not racist, or rooted in fear. They are, however, rooted in compassion for my fellow human beings who find themselves in the crosshairs of reactionary political ideologies, even if they wear labels like "progressive", "feminist", or "anti-racist". I'm mixed so I can generally wriggle out of such accusations by playing the race card. The only situation I ever feel good about doing so are ones like…

> crosshairs of reactionary political ideologies You feel sorry for young white men because they have to deal with politics? "Ferrari owners pay an unfair amount of car insurance."

Ah yes, the notion that the white race holds the same vaunted position that Ferrari does among car makes -- held by racists and anti-racists alike.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can still fundamentally never leave Ohio. God forbid. Think of all the experiences you and your family will miss out on! Lately all I want is to get as far away from people as possible. The internet has negated every advantage of these regions and of money broadly. You cannot buy a nuclear family.

The risk of being tied to a small corner of the country is real and something any Ohioan ought to be sensitive to. Most of Ohio has suffered 50 years of economic back sliding. A lot of people thought that they had realized their modest and reasonable middle class dreams of a good quiet life doing honest work. Major structural changes compromised all of that and a lot of people were stuck holding the bag in places lik…

> they would have been better of foisting it off on Michigan back when they had the chance

This snide irrelevant addition makes it look like you are indeed picking on Ohio...

My overall argument also includes other fine places such as Pittsburgh, Houston, and Cleveland (also in Ohio).

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a legacy of socialist systems where you can have 2 years of paid maternity leave and then go back to your previous job.

Also I guess you HAVE to go back to your job. Everybody has to do their part for society.

Not true, at least not in Communist Poland. Jobless single men were sometimes prosecuted, but a stay-at-home-mom was something completely normal in families which could afford it (which there weren't that many of).

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying that most people aren’t formula pluggers (and that’s a big problem) but, my first impression of that kind of card would be that’s it’s meant to be branding, not a tool. Someone is carrying around a piece of what they love.

If you want to brand, print Maxwell's Equations on the card. Or put a simple amplifier circuit on it. P.S. Maxwell's Equations on a t-shirt are popular, I even sold one for a while.

Just out of curiosity (I don’t mean this to be a dig and don’t carry either cards), why are Maxwell’s Equations good but Ohm’s Law is an instant no-hire? How I remember the story is that, when Ohm published his equation, it came as a huge shock because no one was expecting it to be so simple. There’s a lot of beauty in that simplicity. Maxwell’s equations aren’t that complex but they aren’t exactly _linear_. Valuing complexity is an interesting hiring tactic but would probably be a great filter on younger engineers?
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