FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#631

Post by OJFord » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

ruffrey wrote: post #459

albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

Is $19 per dose expensive? Not knowing anything about pharma costs, it seems about what it'd expect. Especially compared to the economic savings.

I don't really know how to determine a fair price other than letting them compete with Moderna et al.

Traditional flu jabs apparently [0] cost the NHS £5-8 ([0] - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/17/nhs-attempts-sav...

[1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/covid-19-vacci...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#632

Post by niij » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #339

thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" Public schools, colleges, and the military have been requiring vaccines for decades. >It ends up feeling less like the decisions are guided by science and more like they’re guided by petty tyrants wanting to control what others do. This sounds like a result of reading about what health care and government officials…

> Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it"

"The voluntary phase is over" - Bill de Blasio

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/03/new-york-c...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#633

Post by spywaregorilla » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #368

enumjorge wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with this argument. This particular decision with their bodies is harming others. Getting really drunk and driving home is also a decision about your body. So is smoking inside restaurants. Those have been illegal for a while. For those of us who got the vaccine, we’re still having to take precautions because of the delta variant spikes, largely from people who didn’t get a vaccine. Where is our choice?

> So is smoking inside restaurants. But not smoking in your car or at home. There are tons of American parents who hotbox their kids with cigarette or marijuana smoke on a daily basis which not only harms them with second hand smoke but increases their chances of smoking themselves by an astronomical factor. Parents legally harm their children constantly by setting bad diet patterns (child obesity), or substance abus…

Your argument is essentially that because we don't / cannot outlaw all ways to harm others, we cannot justify making other laws to avoid harming others?

You are also strawmanning to assume that laws that punish bad parenting would immediately skip to the state raising the kids.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#634

Post by sneak » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

They will of course pivot; you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

As mandates increase, I anticipate a wave of fake vax cards, as the ones in the USA are simple and trivially easy to forge.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#635

Post by anonuser123456 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

jboggan wrote: post #526

DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

>That process isn't being followed

Evidence?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#636

Post by snarf21 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

hatware wrote: post #568

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

> people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. What is it, day 600 something of "just two weeks" to stop the spread? Oh wait, that's just the _other side's_ fault for not following the rules as well as you did. From where I sit, it seems like a lot of people are having a hard time admitting that shutting down the world's economy may have been the wrong choice, hindsight.

We're about to find out one way or the other in the US. Hospitals are full, ERs are full, ICUs are full and it is likely going to stay that way all fall/winter. This has two consequences: 1) There are no beds and/or staff for people coming in with heart attacks or from car crashes or other solvable issues. 2) Fatigue is building on hospital healthcare workers. They are being berated by family members of dying un-vaccinated persons. They are at a breaking point.I think we will see a complete meltdown of our hospital system. There is going to be a flood of healthcare quitting. I personally expect 20% to walk away over the next 6 months.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#637

Post by jhayward » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #594

collias wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely hasn’t been clear “for a while now” that the vaccine is safe. They do seem to be effective, though. It really depends on what your definition of “safe” is. The vaccines have stated side effects, some of which can severe. The side effects are relatively rare, but non-zero. The other component is time. We’ve proven that the vaccine is mostly safe…for at least a year out. After that, we have no data. You d…

Don’t forget Vioxx!

Only someone totally ignorant of the difference between a vaccine and a pain drug, in terms of how they are tested and approved, would use 'what about vioxx' as an indictment of vaccines.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#638

Post by christophilus » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #541

dfxm12 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What type of responses did you get? I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.). There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other…

> who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.) Eric Clapton took both doses. He suffered some severe adverse reactions. What’s the misinfo?

I hadn't heard of Clapton's vaccine response until reading these comments. Just listened to an interview with him on Odysee. His description sounds exactly like my own experience with the first jab.

I haven't had the second jab. I've had nothing but pressure from almost everyone I know to get the second shot, and am still on the fence.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#639

Post by moate » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #522

moate wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really? I don't see how you bridge a group worried about a short term existential threat (the virus) and another alleging worry about a long term existential threat (the vaccine) when the two things are 0 sum. By the time group 2 catches up (because years have gone by of the vaccine not causing widespread problems) the threat is gone. Meanwhile the animosity has not truly been diminished because the first group w…

The first group has been told it is the second's group fault. The first group is setup to think negatively about the second group because it deflects from decisions made. Let's say it brings on side effects like early dimentia or something much worse. The first group is setup to feel anger towards the healthy second group. The lucky children under 12 become the future. Decision makers can play this off as we are sorr…

This was rambly and trying to pull my point somewhere else but let's address.

The two groups(Those opposed to vaccination due to potential long term effects and those in favor of vaccination immediately) cannot come to a meeting of the minds. Both sides see a potential existential threat that they're prioritizing that makes them diametrically opposed to the other point of view ("if you don't get the vaccine today you're actively spreading the plague" vs "if I get the shot, my blood will clot and I'll be sterile"). The truth is somewhere in the middle.

The whole issue with vaccination is that of threat perception. Everyone is building hypothetical models for the future based, mostly, on personal feeling and enough data points from experts to justify that feeling.

Again: There are a number of people who feel that the threat of the virus is less than the threat of the vaccine and are thus using whatever means presently available to them to justify to others why they believe that, just as there are people who feel that the virus is a greater threat than the cure.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#640

Post by skyde » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

andrew_ wrote: post #511

albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

Having to preface a comment with vaccination status is truly unfortunate.

He could have simply said I believe the vaccine work and is safe bug .. pharma have predatory contract.

I think his goal was to make it clear that he was not an anti-science or conspirationist himself.