How to Work Hard • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Work Hard

#631

Post by imtringued » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #564

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Putting aside the fact that the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough, here's the part of your comment I don't understand: > I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that's how they make money. Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? And if it does matter, then what exactly is your problem with what pg is saying?

Hard work matters exactly as much as the dozen other factors but when you are busy working hard you don't think about those. It goes both ways. If those factors are in your favor you don't talk about them, when they are not, you pretend that they don't matter because hard work is above everything else.

Re: How to Work Hard

#632

Post by obstacle1 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #564

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Putting aside the fact that the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough, here's the part of your comment I don't understand: > I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that's how they make money. Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? And if it does matter, then what exactly is your problem with what pg is saying?

> Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter?

Hard work matters. But it isn't enough. Luck is needed to transform hard work into wealth. Line cooks work very hard.

Incidentally, YC's business model positions it extremely well vs. other VCs to take advantage of this calculus. Fund 1000s of startups full of maniacally hard working kids, and you can expect a few to also get lucky just by sheer volume. Whereas if you're only funding a few startups they may work equally as hard and never run into the luck required to succeed.

Re: How to Work Hard

#633

Post by ARandomerDude » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #98

ARandomerDude wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is right. Gender studies, for example, is a pointless degree. You certainly have a point about not being quick to judge, or overly dismissive, but there are certain things in life that are genuinely pointless, even in education.

You're going to get downvoted into oblivion I suspect, which may have been your intent? Is History a _useful_ degree? Is Economics? Is Politics? Psychology or Sociology? I actually don't want to make those determinations. I don't think I'm qualified. I have a rough view that highly specific degrees are worse overall than general ones. Eg Actuarial Mathematics vs Mathematics. Marine Biology vs Biology. But those are p…

> Is History a _useful_ degree? Is Economics? Is Politics? Psychology or Sociology?

History: often useful

Economics: can be useful, has a lot of fiction mixed in

Politics: irritatingly useful

Psychology: mostly garbage

Sociology: almost entirely garbage

Re: How to Work Hard

#634

Post by bumby » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #121

warent wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive but this is something I've never understood. If life feels like this, that seems like an indicator that it's time for some massive change. Usually people give some vague abstract response about why massive change is just unrealistic, indicating some fragile house of cards, while in a simultaneous act of cognitive dissonance dreaming of the day it topples. Perhaps we coul…

I think the biggest thing is that life can suck in any of the alternatives. Human suffering is universal. People are reluctant to switch if there isn't a well defined value proposition. Life is about trade offs, so there isn't a perfect solution. Even living very minimally is expensive due to things we have little to no choice in like taxes, medical stuff, etc. Sure, I could go live in a cabin in the woods. That will…

To drill down on your response here, is it that you’re frustrated by not having those options?

I get being frustrated if your dream is to live in a cabin in the woods. But it’s hard to fathom being frustrated if you value the relationship with your wife more than living in said cabin. What are the underlying expectations from your life that you feel shut out from? Based on your earlier post, the only expectation seems to be “not to work in a job I hate” which seems completely attainable.

Re: How to Work Hard

#635

Post by tobltobs » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #626

tobltobs wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer games are build to make you addicted and waste your time and money. "They can even connect you with a rich tapestry of human life." Tapestry of human life? Seriously?

I could say the same about novels and be just as correct. You’ve never made friends through a shared interest in games, or even through the games themselves? You’ve never been enthralled with the story of a game, and been left richer afterwards? You’ve missed out, and you’ve missed out through snobbery.

A novel can make you addicted? Like you have to read it every day?

I played a lot with friends, but I never made friends through playing.

I was enthralled by games, but when I was finished I wasn't "richer" in any way, just shorter of time.

It is ok to waste your time if it is fun, but trying to glorify wasting your time is just trying to find an excuse.

Re: How to Work Hard

#636

Post by _Nat_ » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #580

_Nat_ wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly I'm a puzzled by the quality-level of these posts. A lot of stuff, like the lack of formatting and HTTPS, give off an antique feel, almost like a signal that they're not meant to be taken seriously. Ditto for the over-the-top arrogant tone and relatively sparse content. I might be off-base on this, but I sometimes wonder if these articles aren't like a honey-pot for non-serious YCombinator applicants. Like…

> A lot of stuff, like the lack of formatting and HTTPS What's the point of HTTPS for a static website which doesn't convey any secrets? (that's a genuine question, I'm not a web expert).

The reason I'd advocate in more public settings is that things ought to be secure-by-default, and that adopting security only upon realizing its necessity is a hazard-prone policy that constantly backfires.

But for a specific example of something that could go wrong: someone could inject malicious content into a non-secure page. The original content might be plain-text, but a man-in-the-middle can still inject whatever they like regardless.

As a common example of a simple attack: an attacker could man-in-the-middle people who connect to a nearby wireless network. Notes:

1. There're a bunch of ways that an attacker could get people to connect to their network. Examples: spoofing a legitimate network; setting up a password-less network; putting up a poster falsely advertising the SSID/pass to a network that falsely purports itself to be official; they're an actual employee of the establishment and just compromise the legitimate network; they're a remote-hacker who's exploited a vulnerability in the router.

2. The attacker could do lots of random stuff. Examples: they could inject malicious code; they could inject misinformation to facilitate scamming someone; they could insert ads; steal CPU-time/electricity for crypto-mining; they could just put gross porno on everyone's phone in a restaurant as a troll. Or something else. Or multiple things.

3. The original site being just plain-text doesn't really matter; the attacker can replace the entire thing without even contacting the real website. Or they can get the real website, then add other stuff to it.

The simple rule-of-thumb for website-operators is to just keep everything secure(-ish, if we're being realistic).

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Re: How to Work Hard

#637

Post by luffapi » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

swman wrote: post #625

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Okay, but nobody is going to become anywhere close to Messi without working hard. That's the point. Do you think someone could become Messi by putting in barely any practice or effort? You might get into a team, but you won't be a Messi lol. Be honest with yourself. Obviously luck plays a role, but most people (>90% I'll bet) who are successful in the end get there due to hard work. I could sit on my butt and do noth…

It’s important to recognize physical activity is very different from mental, creative or social activities. If you can convince people of things, you can be wildly successful. They may listen to you because you speak well, they may listen to you because you’re telling them what they want to hear or they may listen to you because you’re rich. None of which require the rigorous practice of a professional athlete.

Same goes for creative endeavors. I can be much more creative (and successful) if I’m well rested vs. grinding.

Contrary to you, the most successful people I know didn’t work hard at all. They either inherited cash and a network or they invented something that got huge and they sold it.

Re: How to Work Hard

#638

Post by eloff » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #531

eloff wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PG says: > There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three: you need great natural ability and to have practiced a lot and to be trying very hard. I think that's the fundamental secret to success at anything. If you want to compete at the top level you have to have all three. It's not sufficient to just…

Without luck, you will not get to the level of Messi. Without knowledge, you will not get to the level of Messi. Without living in the right environment, you will not get to the level of Messi. The "natural ability" thing is just a spin on the same idea. Work hard to recognize your natural ability. Be realistic about it. In that view, natural ability is not a matter of luck. It is still a story about doing the right…

> Without luck, you will not get to the level of Messi.

I would add that as a fourth requirement to compete at the very top level along with the other three. A degree of luck is also necessary.

> Without living in the right environment, you will not get to the level of Messi.

A fifth requirement.

None of that means hard work is NOT a requirement too - and one of the most important.

Without hard work Messi gets nowhere. But if he has the other things going for him, eventually he will get lucky by just being persistent.

Re: How to Work Hard

#639

Post by f38zf5vdt » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #617

throwawayboise wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just burned out. I hope you have some financial cushion and can take some time to just do nothing. Or try gardening, or woodworking, or something really different that can be personally rewarding with no pressure to meet anyone else's expectations. With time you should heal.

Unfortunately, I've been burnt out too many times now, for too long. Every job now ends in burn out and takes 6+ months to recover from before I can start looking for another job. This time, however, feels different - it never felt insurmountable like this before. I can't work on my own stuff, can't level up my skills, not sure how to get back to that. I suspect that my situation is likely common among aging coders a…

So stop coding, or put yourself out to pasture at a low intensity coding gig.

I came from a family of engineers and I watched my dad work himself to death at the expense of virtually everything else in life. One day he up and died, and that was the end of it. Most of his projects are no longer applicable or noteworthy. Life is the process of taking a daily step towards death every day. In 100 years, no one is going to remember us. Even the man rich enough to prolong their life can only make their path longer, but we all get there in the end.

Just find things you can enjoy and do them. Everything else is wasted time.

Re: How to Work Hard

#640

Post by quacked » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #617

throwawayboise wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just burned out. I hope you have some financial cushion and can take some time to just do nothing. Or try gardening, or woodworking, or something really different that can be personally rewarding with no pressure to meet anyone else's expectations. With time you should heal.

Unfortunately, I've been burnt out too many times now, for too long. Every job now ends in burn out and takes 6+ months to recover from before I can start looking for another job. This time, however, feels different - it never felt insurmountable like this before. I can't work on my own stuff, can't level up my skills, not sure how to get back to that. I suspect that my situation is likely common among aging coders a…

Why not work a service job for a while? There's no delayed gratification in bartending or waiting tables. Show up, clock in, serve drinks, go home. It's not easy, but the success conditions are clear, and when you're done you can completely forget about it until it's time to go in again.