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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#631

Post by xxpor »

enraged_camel wrote: post #270
javajosh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great link, thank you! That's precisely what I was looking for (and I highly recommend it to anyone else reading this thread). It does seem strange to me that we set the bar so high for defamation, but its one of those times where the trade-off is very clear, and it seems like in this particular case "reckless disregard for the truth" seems to fit extremely well.

> It does seem strange to me that we set the bar so high for defamation Well, it's not that strange, if you look at how frequently mere threats of defamation lawsuits are used to chill free speech.

After 2020, any states left without a strong anti-SLAPP statute should make it a priority to pass one.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#632

Post by mrzimmerman »

throwaway31831 wrote: post #523
javagram wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machine count of mail-in ballots is checked by a hand count audit. For instance, in Georgia every ballot was recounted by humans to confirm the accuracy of the machine count.

The hand count didn't address any of the risks people were actually worried about. It could not have caught either of the types of fraud I mentioned above, for example. Read the interview I posted with Philip Stark, Berkeley Math Dean who is probably the leading expert on election auditing having designed the procedures for conducting risk-limiting audits in many states. He explains this in detail.

So scanning machines, the same ones we’ve used for decades, are compromised too? And that doesn’t show up in any of the routine audits that happen in a lot of states after an election?

What would you have people do? Maybe have the volunteers just scan the ballot by hand and then write down on paper the vote totals?

The argument just boils down to “machines are scary to me” and that isn’t a good enough reason to abandon progress that is routinely shown to work just fine.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#633

Post by emmelaich »

smt88 wrote: post #621
emmelaich wrote: post #617

It used to be the case that accusations of voting machine related fraud came habitually and often from the left[0]. I wish we had open-source, publicly reviewed voting machines.. Diebold used to be the bête-noire of computer security people. Not particularly relevant but Dominion inherited Diebold with one of their acquisitions. 0. https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006...

The accusations in the article you linked are fact-based and mostly related to security. They're not comparable to the lunacy people are inventing about Dominion.

Yeah, I wasn't taking a position wrt to Dominion.

I am saying it would be good to have much more confidence in the voting system than we have. From any political persuasion.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#634

Post by EdwardDiego »

joering2 wrote: post #626
andy_ppp wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are kidding me, their defence in court is that they are bullshit artists, it’s just beyond parody. I’m starting to think we live in something far worse than idiocracy... Dominion at the very least should be demanding they remove the word “news” from all their branding if this is to fly.

Fox Noise is a joke. Mostly they are being watched so much because people find them entertaining. But they are danger to society and democracy. The lies they spew are the reason they been banned both from Murdoch home Australia, and Great Britain. I find it especially funny to watch Sean Insanity, Fucker Calrson, Lara Inbreed and Mark Lenin; they all just opinion-makers, its just happen to be extremely shitty but fun…

I agree with you, but I suspect the rather childish nicknames are getting you downvoted.

We can discuss the issue with a news network that argues in court "It's not news, it's just their opinion" while presenting it as news, without going 12 year old in it.

It's much like how a valid critique of Ballmer era Microsoft is immediately undermined by referring to them as Micro$oft or Microsucks etc.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#635

Post by MisterBastahrd »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #556
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the wrong word, but it remains that the judges didn't normally rule on the actual arguments of the case, which were ridiculous in their own right.

Strong disagree. The judges dismissed mainly (totally) on two grounds - laches, and failure to state a legal case. If you're just whining, the court isn't going to hear you. Get out of here with that stuff and stop wasting our time, says the court. They aren't your chance to stand up and rant about stuff. And laches is, you didn't like the rules? Sue before the election; you had plenty of time. You wait until after?…

LOL.

"The record establishes that Wisconsin's selection of its 2020 Presidential Electors was conducted in the very manner established by the Wisconsin Legislature, by general ballot at the general election... plaintiff has not shown a significant departure from the Wisconsin Legislature's chosen election scheme ... This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits. In his reply brief, plaintiff 'asks that the Rule of law be followed.' It has been"

Try again, my dude. Just because you paid attention to one singular case doesn't mean that judges didn't rule on the merit of the case anywhere.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#636

Post by EdwardDiego »

newacct583 wrote: post #512
wcunning wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

To be clear: Lawyers are held to a higher standard of conduct for the purposes of performing their jobs as lawyers . Giuliani could be disbarred for this almost certainly, etc... Lawyers are very much not held to a lower standard of criminal proof. They sit as defendants in exactly the same way and for the same reasons that we all do. I think what you're trying to say is that the argument about malice is easier becau…

Traditonally the obligation of proof lies on the person making the claim.

And likewise, it's near impossible to prove a negative.

If we followed your train of thought, we'd be demanding that Hillary Clinton prove she didn't harvest adenochrome from terrified paedophilia victims in a pizza restaurant.

Which is pretty ridiculous, right?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#637

Post by MisterBastahrd »

throwaway12992 wrote: post #564
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the wrong word, but it remains that the judges didn't normally rule on the actual arguments of the case, which were ridiculous in their own right.

They were not ridiculous. Have you heard of Antrim County? Everybody on the right heard of it on November 5th. https://www.westernjournal.com/michigan-recount-confirms-tru... This is "fact checked" by many left leaning websites to indicate it is false. But even the "fact checkers" admit that Trump actually won Antrim county. Their "fact check" ridicules that the 2nd recount, after the reversing of the dominion glitch…

Maybe learn to read your own articles, because it's clear you haven't gone past the first couple of paragraphs on either.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#638

Post by [deleted] »

rwmj wrote: post #317
ChrisLomont wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, hand filled out ballots are a mess, often illegible, the hanging chad fiasco, etc. With electronic voting, the voter can (should?) see on a screen exactly what they did, and the machine can make multiple exact copies in electronic and paper formats of that exact result. There is far less ambiguity in the physical record once this has been done.

The UK has paper-only ballots and none of this stuff is a problem. (There are no "hanging chads" because ballots are marked by the voter with a pen or pencil on a piece of paper). The polls close at 10pm, the votes are counted overnight by volunteers, and the winner takes office the next morning. It always baffles me that the US system is so complicated.

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#639

Post by edgyquant »

qwerty12345678 wrote: post #615
edgyquant wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these claims were brought to court and dismissed without evidence. Quit concern trolling you know they were bullshitting and so does every other person with even the slightest technical background.

Since you bring up technical backgrounds, how do you feel about the voting machines having logs erased for 2020 but not 2016? And would you be against analyzing all election machine logs related to server-activity/internet-usage/usb-activity/code-execution-activity/etc? If you really claim that they were bullshitting , why is everyone so afraid to release that data? And not question why it was deleted? Giuliani was j…

How about you show me a single credible source that backs up your claim the logs were deleted? Quit being dishonest, or worse spreading ignorance by accident.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#640

Post by dragonwriter »

qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546
wcunning wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

> why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won?

We have a process for determining who won the Presidential election, with many avenues for presenting challenges. Trump fully availed himself of his challenges, and was determined to have lost.

Not only is the burden on those disputing the result, but they've had extensive opportunities and failed to meet it.

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