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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#631

Post by buran77 »

gambiting wrote: post #592
buran77 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, that bit I don't really believe. I'd love to see some data about it As you said in a comment below: > According to Volvo's own data 60% of PHEV buyers never plug them in You confirm what I said in my unpopular comment above, on paper PHEVs reduce emissions by a lot but in reality, as a fleet, the numbers are far worse than suggested. Many are company cars because the company wanted the tax cuts and subsidies,…

Ok, I was asking specifically for data that shows that people buy hybrids because they don't have somewhere to charge(rather than, for instance, that they get a nice tax discount by doing so). In my other comment I pointed out that on my street there's someone else with a PHEV and I have never seen him charge it, even though he could easily do so - private driveway, plenty of space, if he wanted to then he could. And…

> I think you obsess with the official numbers a little bit too much.

Maybe but that's because it was that particular statement that started the discussion. The only reason I mentioned it was in response to OP's statement:

> [hybrids] they are about the only way to comply except pure BEVs

Of course it warranted the addendum "on paper" since in reality and according to all studies and data from any source they do not comply as a fleet, it's a mathematical trick.

Saying that I obsess over the particular point that started the discussion seems a bit unnecessarily dismissive. You obsess about your very particular situation and your neighbor's even if we can both agree it's not generally applicable to the vast majority of people out there.

> if you see somewhere that the fleet average for the XC60 T8 is just 7L/100km then that's frankly fantastic

I simply googled for websites that collect user submitted fuel consumption data and picked the median rather than the average. This data is of course very limited. And it may very well be fantastic but again, the whole point of my interjection was that official numbers are fake and from the data I do have access to fuel consumption of PHEVs is marginally better than the equivalent ICE (despite being a bit heavier). As a fleet they barely make a dent in the emission problem. But people either see this as being different from their particular situation and assume it must be wrong, or they realize it's exactly their situation and don't like it being pointed out.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#632

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

Daho0n wrote: post #567
theshrike79 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a gas station for peak capacity would mean building so many pumps that you never have to queue. Even when people leave their car by the pump while going to the bathroom or grab a slushie and some snacks.

That is a solved problem in most of the world. I have waited at a gas station at most 5 times in my life and never more than 2-4 minutes. Going to the bathroom or leaving the pump I have never seen anyone do. If I did I would turn off the pump at the big red STOP button as leaving the pump running unattended is illegal.

Where do you live? Everywhere in the US I've been the normal use case if you're getting something other than gas is to start the pump and then walk into the store to get food/use bathroom/etc., while the tank is filling. Yes, it's illegal, but people do it all-the-time.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#633

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

theshrike79 wrote: post #593
Daho0n wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a solved problem in most of the world. I have waited at a gas station at most 5 times in my life and never more than 2-4 minutes. Going to the bathroom or leaving the pump I have never seen anyone do. If I did I would turn off the pump at the big red STOP button as leaving the pump running unattended is illegal.

You can't leave the pump running outside of the US, the fuel nizzle won't lock. I mean the people who fill up their car, and just leave the car at the pump.

That must suck in the middle of winter if you have to stand there holding subzero temperature metal while filling your 20-gallon tank and when it's done, go clean off your windshield, hatchback glass, etc.

Hell, around here, when the temperature drops well below 0F, lots of people keep their car running and just sit in it while the tank fills.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#634

Post by aden1ne »

tyfon wrote: post #560
riffraff wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is that in many places (i.e. most European cities) you don't have a dedicated parking spot, so to park overnight you would need to put charging spots on every street every five meters. The task is possible, but gargantuan.

They're doing that in Oslo now, many street parking slots are getting 22 kW poles next to them. It's just a matter of political will.

Those exist in the Netherlands too, but the problem is that those spots are now _exclusive_ to EVs. An ICE car is not allowed to park there. I live in an area where >95% of parking spots are occupied on a given night. The current approach is, at least for the time being, only making it worse.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#635

Post by theshrike79 »

rasz wrote: post #625
theshrike79 wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cable is closer to 300-400€. (7 meter 32A Type 2) It locks to the pole when it's charging, and the car can be set up to lock its end until the car is unlocked. Non-issue.

The cable can be cut with $30 Bolt Cutters, and sold to the scrappers for its weight in copper. Multiply by the number of cars charging that night on one street. Faster, cleaner and tons more profitable than cutting catalyst converters from under the cars.

It also has up to 32 amps of current running through it. Better get those industrial cutters with proper insulation =)

BTW, are all scrappers completely unethical? People steal the weirdest shit for the value of the metal and they always seem to find some scrapyard that'll take it and pay for it.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#636

Post by theshrike79 »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #633
theshrike79 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't leave the pump running outside of the US, the fuel nizzle won't lock. I mean the people who fill up their car, and just leave the car at the pump.

That must suck in the middle of winter if you have to stand there holding subzero temperature metal while filling your 20-gallon tank and when it's done, go clean off your windshield, hatchback glass, etc. Hell, around here, when the temperature drops well below 0F, lots of people keep their car running and just sit in it while the tank fills.

Yea, I live in Finland, cold isn't an issue :)

And like every ICE fan likes to repeat, it's like 2-3 minutes to fill up a tank in a European car. And 2 minutes of that is fiddling with the chip&pin card reader in the cold.

Even if it's negative Freedom Units outside, the car won't cool down enough to get cold during refueling - keeping it running is just plain stupid.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#637

Post by sunstone »

theshrike79 wrote: post #504
sunstone wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly, the most popular car in Ulan Bator (capital of Mongolia) is the Prius because in their super cold winters it, of all cars, starts and runs best in the cold.

The Prius Secret is that the engine is so loosely tuned it doesn't have much friction when starting, the oil also has the viscosity of colored water :) Best of all it uses the EV motor and battery to crank the ICE engine, there's no separate weak-ass starter motor. Had mine in -30C weather for a weekend, cranked it on monday night and it just - started. Like it had been vacationing in the French Riviera. Compare that…

Thanks for providing the details on why the Prius is so reliable in these harsh conditions. :)

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#638

Post by worik »

fastball wrote: post #399
worik wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am never buying a Tesla. I want to own my car

You do own your car if you buy a Tesla?

No you do not.

Tesla can change the settings of the car without asking you.

For me to change the settings of "my" Tesla I need their permission, which is not available.

My electric car will not be connected to the Internet, it will have no wireless network access of any sort. None.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#639

Post by worik »

kortilla wrote: post #437
ryandrake wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having never used or even seen a super charger, I have no idea why one would need a friggen internet connection. Don’t you just plug them in and swipe your card like a gas station?

What do you think happens when you swipe your card at a gas pump. That authorization is going out over the Internet or a phone line.

I pay cash

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#640

Post by tyfon »

aden1ne wrote: post #634
tyfon wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing that in Oslo now, many street parking slots are getting 22 kW poles next to them. It's just a matter of political will.

Those exist in the Netherlands too, but the problem is that those spots are now _exclusive_ to EVs. An ICE car is not allowed to park there. I live in an area where >95% of parking spots are occupied on a given night. The current approach is, at least for the time being, only making it worse.

They are aiming to ban fossils completely in the city centre in Oslo anyway now. I think about 60% of the cars in the city are EVs already.
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