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YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#631

Post by its_simple »

slacka wrote: post #281
muttantt wrote: post #176

This is ridiculous. Regardless of your politics, this is just going the wrong direction. Where was this policy when the other side was pushing the Russia collusion narrative for years?

Nice false equivalence. Judges have ruled that Trump's side has failed to show any evidence of fraud in Court, losing 50/51 court cases, with the "win" having nothing to do with fraud[1]. On the other hand, there are literally thousand of pages from the Senate Committee on Intelligence showing evidence of Russian Interference in 2016. [2] [3], along with the Mueller Report [4]. Russian Interference in 2016 is not com…

Did you actually read the Mueller Report? The only claims that I've heard about this nonsense story are that some people were guilty of lying to the government (which shouldn't even be a crime lmfao. they're allowed to lie to us), and avoiding taxes by putting money overseas and getting the money back via loans, which all of these oligarchs do, and is definitely not treason lol.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#632

Post by einpoklum »

I wonder if they would remove content from 2003 claiming that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Or - the endless repetition in some media channels in recent years that Trump was colluding with Russia.

This kind of censorship is bad. Yes, YouTube is privately owned, but that in itself is problematic, seeing how it effectively has a public function. More and more, we live by the rules and internal judicial systems of the large corporations, especially tech companies.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#633

Post by rayiner »

UncleMeat wrote: post #467
singlow wrote: post #330

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

> some impartial account of what really happened We do see students, even at the college level, claiming that the high quality academic writing they are assigned in curricula is "liberal indoctrination". This method does not function because even the most well researched academic study of these topics can be simply rejected out of hand by students who have been fed lies about the very structure of education.

That’s because, outside certain fields where research can be verified objectively, it very often is a liberal take on whatever is being researched. A vanishingly small number of academics have conservative, or even moderate views. In fields where you can’t objectively analyze the arguments that are being made, liberal assumptions and viewpoints get baked into the research. Even when there is a numeric component, the numbers are viewed from the perspective of liberal assumptions about causation and significance.

I got into an argument the other day with a political science professor about colonization. It was completely unrecognizable to me as someone who is from a former British colony and whose father spent a lifetime working on bread and butter issues affecting the developing world, such as maternal health. (I explained the academic concept of “decolonization” to my father. He thought it was the political process of devolving governance from colonial powers to native governments. I said, no, what they mean by that now is removing colonial influences and culture from the country. My dad’s response was “why the hell would you want to do that?”)

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#634

Post by simnim »

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

I recommend Hate Inc by Matt Taibbi.

It's a fantastic book that brilliantly illuminates the false dichotomy of red team vs blue team politics and news media.

We should all be careful of the corporate press. Their purpose is to profit, not inform. This applies both to red team and blue team news media. Comfortable lies are profitable while difficult truths are not.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Silencing voices we don't like only give them credence and power, especially in the age of the internet and new media.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#635

Post by chrisandchips »

singlow wrote: post #330

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

> some impartial account of what really happened

This can be very hard to acquire, especially for events that we are far removed from. Then again, maybe it isn't necessary. Simply reading about a story twice with a deliberate bias on each side can be extremely revealing.

Would more people be inclined to do this if we taught it in schools? I hope so. These days it feels like the reporting of the news is more real to the general population than the news itself ..

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#636

Post by rightbyte »

mmastrac wrote: post #27
rayiner wrote: post #23

This is an enormous overreach. > Given that, we will start removing any piece of content uploaded today (or anytime after) that misleads people by alleging that widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election, in line with our approach towards historical U.S. Presidential elections. For example, we will remove videos claiming that a Presidential candidate won the election due to…

> These same claims are being made in ongoing court cases. Of which what % have been tossed? 95%+? And the one (!) that hasn't have had zero impact on the results. The election is over. Biden won. The votes will be certified, but not after Trump's team has done a great deal of damage to the American democracy.

What does it matter that suits are tossed out? Do you realize how silly it seems to ban critizing the election process unless you also aknowledge Biden as winner?

There are like, what, a dozen states' Attorney Generals that you can't tape a press release off and put on Youtube according to those rules.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#637

Post by gwright »

seanwilson wrote: post #575
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> but it's not like the US government is doing a better job I think this is the part people are overlooking when they talk about censorship and freedom of speech...what are you supposed to do when it's the government of your country itself that is actively pushing large amounts of misinformation? Does it not completely change the situation compared to an individual or organisation doing this? It takes more effort to…

> The government has more power to push out convincing misinformation in vast quantities than anyone else.

Really? You don't think that the mass media is at least in the same league?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#638

Post by [deleted] »

jl2718 wrote: post #612
singlow wrote: post #330

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

In my 'education', I can't think of a single element of the historical record that was presented through conflicting accounts of contemporary sources. One side is simply labeled as evil and ignored, but, as far as I know, nobody has ever agreed with this characterization of themselves. Evidence too, if at all, was always used to support a narrative account of events, rather than to eliminate possibilities until a par…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#639

Post by 542458 »

jl2718 wrote: post #612
singlow wrote: post #330

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

In my 'education', I can't think of a single element of the historical record that was presented through conflicting accounts of contemporary sources. One side is simply labeled as evil and ignored, but, as far as I know, nobody has ever agreed with this characterization of themselves. Evidence too, if at all, was always used to support a narrative account of events, rather than to eliminate possibilities until a par…

I feel what you’re saying is an exaggeration. In highschool history class we definitely had conflicting viewpoints on the causes and blame for WW1, varying perspectives on the use of gas in warfare, the arguments about the ethics of bombing civilian targets in WW2, and the debates about the necessity and ethics of the conflicts between “western” and communist powers during the Cold War. This hardly unleashed “chaos” - it was an above average but otherwise normal Canadian highschool history class.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#640

Post by sergiomattei »

aerovistae wrote: post #323

This thread is fascinating. Same type of troll/sarcasm/meme comments (e.g. "orange man bad") as you find on Reddit, which are normally absent from HN. This topic clearly brings out the worst no matter where it's discussed.

I’ve never seen such a cesspool in HN. This (low) level of debate here is novel.
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