Google users locked out after 15 years' use • Hacker News Board

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#631

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #370

fullstop wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few things that protonmail is not good at, but I guess I've learned to live with them. 1. You can't search message content. gmail is very good at this, so I've had to become more organized to make sure that I can find a particular message in protonmail. 2. Notifications on mobile do not clear if I've read the message on another device. I have to open up the app and sync to stop them from popping up with o…

all these issues sound more like client issues than protonmail service issues. why not just use a different email client to connect to protonmail, such as Spark?

Protonmail integrates with its client (web app, iOs/Android app), unless you use the additional Protonmail Bridge service.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#632

Post by saalweachter » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #33

szszrk wrote: post #7

Being locked out from google account is one of my biggest fears in practical computer usage. Over the years I can't even tell how much I'm sunk into using tiny pieces of google's services, even though for most crucial things I tend to omit google and look for alternatives that are easier to handle in problematic situation. Mail is one of the things I'm most worried about.

As one who's never trusted my data to Google I really am curious why so many actually do so. Is the convenience truly that great that people are even prepared to gamble the loss of their data? Alternatively, why is it that some of us have always been mistrustful of Big Tech and most others not? They're completely opposite worldviews.

The idea of losing all of my email access, etc, is terrifying, much like the idea of getting in a car accident, or getting cancer, or one of a million bad things that can happen to a person.

But what are the actual odds that a bad thing is going to happen to me?

1.8 billion people are currently using GMail. If 1000 "real" (ie, not bots) accounts were closed every day for the next 80 years, there's a 98% chance that I (or any other individual user) would never have a problem.

Obviously, if some number of people are having problems that's, well, a problem, but as an individual user I mostly assume that it's not going to happen to me, much like I largely don't think about the 1-in-103 chance that I'll die in a car accident.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#633

Post by tracker1 » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

gitweb wrote: post #560

eropple wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a ghastly and inhumane comparison. Companies aren't people.

I think it is more ghastly and inhumane to think that companies that choose not to market to those they disagree with are somehow doing them a disservice by not marketing to them. They are doing them a favor. It would be completely different if they were saying they couldn't shop there, just like if you intentionally look for women doctor's to tell them that you think they are inferior or if you look for dark skinned…

While I agree, it's also possible that certain ideologies don't actually lead to revenue from advertising in practice. If I'm selling a line of Jewish labelled clothing, then it doesn't do me much good to include pro-Islam sites in advertising. And although the above is a rather specific strawman, there are many other areas of advertising, companies and products that don't have broad appeal in a given category.

As a potentially better example, if a higher than typical number of LGBTQIIAA+ are likely to be vetegarian/vegan, then excluding them from meat based product advertising might be better use of dollars spent.

Just because an advertiser doesn't want to advertise among contentious groups doesn't mean they are being bigoted about their targeting, it likely comes down to not being worth it due to limited response from those markets.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#634

Post by snielson » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #496

My gut feeling is that I feel Microsoft is more trustworthy than Google at this point. Is it just me? Also isn't it funny how we are willing to pay $100+ a month for an iPhone or premium Android with service, yet many balk at the idea of $5/month for a more trustworthy email option? (not saying MSFT is it necessary; there's multiple paid alternatives to Gmail)

I think Microsoft is better too. I subscribe to M365 (family plan) so I've been switching everything over to them. Email was easy (used outlook desktop app), but photos is hard. That and I have no alternative to Google voice

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#635

Post by dzhiurgis » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

intellirogue wrote: post #419

dzhiurgis wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZ doesn’t seem to have e-gov either :D most is forms over post. That said I’ve never had to go to an institution here over 6 years I’m here. Edit: yes NZ has RealMe but there isn’t much use for it (in my xp).

Most WINZ/StudyLink and IRD interactions are online now, and I got my passport 100% online using RealMe. I can't remember the last time I posted anything to government in NZ.

I've had a ton of paperwork done in recent years (voting, child passport, visas). Most of the conveniences stops when you don't have NZ's drivers licence...

p.s. IRD has it's own login system.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#636

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #384

_jjca wrote: post #60

This is genuinely scary. Photos, Yale locks, Fi, WiFi and Nest thermostat can all be poof gone because I made a silly YouTube comment? How is this not regulated? Google photos also 'helpfully' offers to delete your uploaded photos with 'some guarantee'!!! If this isn't an indication of a giant shitty monopoly that doesn't care about its customers at all, I don't what is. They have some AI ML fucking crap but can't fi…

This raises a question. If you're well marinated in Google services, like me, what do you do? Is there a comprehensive, simple, and easy way to port everything? Perhaps there's some authoritative site about what exactly you need to do?

One key point is that you do not want a single all-encompassing alternative, at least one that is a remote corporate-run service, as this simply replicates the risk elsewhere.

The principle options are:

- Integrated replacement services. Don't do this.

- Multiple independent free services. At least you've diversified risk. Mind that these may (and likely will) consolidate with time. Skype, WebMeeting, Instagram, YouTube, GitHub, and Blogger were once freestanding companies. They no longer are.

- Self-hosted solutions. NextCloud, FreedomBox, etc., or DIY service bundles on your home, office, and/or a hosted service can avoid the problem entirely at least for highly stateful services (email, contacts, files, documents)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=google+alternatives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nextcloud

https://nomoregoogle.com

https://alternativeto.net

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#637

Post by londons_explore » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

Guest19023892 wrote: post #523

londons_explore wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work on adsense. There is no facility for an "earnings cap". Your revenue is the literal sum of earnings from every click on your property. While ads are showing and being clicked on, you will always be earning more. If I were to guess, you failed to implement ads.txt and/or your content didn't meet the standards required by some big advertisers, so auction pressure was very low for your site.

I've had similar issues with AdSense. Running a site for 10 years, and it was earning $250/day for years, then suddenly it dropped. For a while I had the same traffic and instead of 500 clicks a day Google would say I had 3 or 4 clicks. I contacted them, waited a month, and they said to label them "Advertisements" so users are not confused. Well, my site is mostly text based and I have at least 50px of space around a…

> The other week I tried building a database of 800 million IP addresses using lists of all IP addresses from datacenters, VPNs, proxies, TOR exit nodes, and IPs flagged as abusive.

This isn't going to work well... Both Google and many advertisers will send bots to your site to scan the content. If they see javascript shenanigans going on affecting ad presentation, they'll do something between not advertising (reducing revenue) or permabanning you...

"Invalid Traffic" is nearly always some dirty business going on - either by you, or by one of your users, or a competitor, or even someone totally random hoping to blend their fraud in with some legit sites like yours.

If I were you, I'd hunt your logs for botlike behaviour and close any associated user accounts.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#638

Post by temp667 » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

mihaifm wrote: post #302

gsich wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also need a clean IP and PTR records.

Not necessarily. Static IP and PTR records improve the "credibility" factor, but it's not required. I'm running mine on the dynamic IP provided by the ISP, without PTR. Despite the warnings I get from the mail scanning tools, I can send mail to Gmail, Yahoo and the other major providers.

Not if you are on hetzner or one of the other major spam hosting ISP ranges. You will blocked in a lot of places.

Folks talk about these places and the "unlimited" bandwidth and the "friendly" abuse teams. Ergo - you can't talk to as many other places via email. The big players will crunch you down quick.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#639

Post by temp667 » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

Antitrust lawsuit seems like a joke. We're going after google for search? Which has literally the lowest switching costs out there and is offered for free - and this is what the govt is calling consumer harm?

Meanwhile, I can think of a BUNCH of things that result in actual consumer harm by google - this included. And no, I don't give to craps about other businesses making money or not - so that whole part of the anti-trust thing seems dumb to me - yes, spammers and auto-review websites are downranked I'm sure, and I don't care.

How is stuff like this at least a bit higher on the things to think about from a govt regulation standpoint.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#640

Post by bigwavedave » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #486

bigwavedave wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love protonmail! I made the switch a couple years back and haven't looked back, with one exception- my city's utilities company blacklists protonmail, so in the handful of times I've emailed them (specifically there were three times they've shut off my water because someone with a very similar looking address didn't pay their bill) with proof of something-or-other, it supposedly doesn't make it to their communal or…

If they’re incorrectly shutting off your water, read up on your legal rights, and then send a polite letter to their legal department and the local utility regulatory board. Public utilities are highly regulated, and do not have the right to interrupt your service.

I agree! However I move at the end of the week, so I won't worry this time around.