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3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

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Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#631

Post by Frondo »

tathougies wrote: post #260
pjc50 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where it's very important to distinguish between financial conditions and material conditions. Feeding children and supplying respirators and masks are material conditions, dependent on the production and distribution systems. Paying rent and mortgage, on the other hand, isn't material . If you don't pay it nothing material changes - it's not an iron law of the world in the way that hunger is, evictions are a…

Mortgages and by extension rent provide liquid funds to banks so that account holders, including essential business's like hospitals, farmers, and factories can pay their employees and bills. You are delusional to think it is possible to suspend payments without printing massive amounts of money that will certainly lead to more death.

People do not need liquidity to survive. They need air, water, food, medicine, shelter, in decreasing order of importance. No one has ever died for lack of liquidity.

We've done a middling job at making sure people have air and water, less good with food and even worse with shelter and medicine. But liquidity? That should be last on the list of things to worry about. It should always be last.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#632

Post by bavell »

cvlasdkv wrote: post #600
omegaworks wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Yang wanted to make people choose. A thousand bucks a month [with no structural controls on costs], OR food stamps and housing vouchers. Let's be real about what he put on the table.

Further he went an endorsed a candidate nowhere aligned with his supposed policies. :(

As did Tulsi and as will Bernie :(

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#633

Post by sumofi »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #586
tuna-piano wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a false choice. As Bill gates said, we can't say- "Hey, keep going to restaurants, go buy new houses, ignore that pile of bodies over in the corner. We want you to keep spending because there’s maybe a politician who thinks GDP growth is all that counts" The truth is that it seems our choice is relatively simple: 1) Allow the virus to spread rapidly, overload the health system, kill many people, until…

> ignore that pile of bodies over in the corner. “That pile of bodies” is mainly the elderly and terminally ill, demographics that society already seems to have little problem ignoring. Even now the worry among most of the population seems to be that those demographics will overwhelm the health system, preventing everyone else from getting medical attention. But this could be solved by triaging, which is rumoured to…

Still enough normal 30-49 olds are dying as well

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#634

Post by cloudartisans »

GhostVII wrote: post #627
charlieflowers wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's called "a good time to get the heck out if you haven't already."

Panic selling is generally a poor strategy. Feel free though I'd be happy to pick up some more cheap VGRO.

You don’t think it’s a good time to “panic sell” when the market goes up 20% in just 3 days?

Edit: especially while the US corona curve is not showing any signs of slowing down.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#635

Post by sharken »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #150
toomuchtodo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine those less at risk will eventually give up on confinement and continue on with their lives, forcing those at risk (risk factors, 60+, immunocompromised) to remain confined voluntarily or risk a greater chance of death by venturing out. Those not at risk (younger and healthier) will be prioritized for triage and ventilator access if they do get sick. You can't expect people to shelter in place indefinitely,…

I think the next couple of weeks are going to be eye opening - we're going to get a lot of reports of deaths, even of the young and healthy, which we're already seeing. That should steel the collective resolve to last a while here. People are talking of lifting the restrictions and our collective endurance and things have barely gotten going. It's really complaining about the length of the red light when it's just tu…

Got any data to support your claim, otherwise I could argue that risk factors, 60+, immunocompromised are the MAJOR concerns as stated above. Looking to Italy and Spain seems to confirm this view.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#636

Post by sharken »

bigbob2 wrote: post #522
tstewart161 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this point made a lot, that these “bailouts” are in any way equivalent to previous bailouts based on poor management and immoral business practices. These aren’t the same. This shutdown (however justified) is because of the govt. If the government demands you shut down your business, or that you can’t go to work, you deserve to be compensated for that. If the government hadn’t mandated it, young people wou…

The alternative seems to be to let millions get sick en masse, potentially leading to similar shutdowns for longer time periods (i.e. failing to "flatten the curve"). I don't think you can claim those businesses would be fine unless you define a timeline to go with your assertion; say, "those businesses would be fine for n weeks."

Remember that sick != dead, unless you have risk factors, 60+ or is immunocompromised in which case you should do everything you can to stay at home and practice distancing.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#637

Post by marcosdumay »

lbeltrame wrote: post #620
marcosdumay wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Italy in a pretty bad shape to restart the virus spread right now? As soon as the government can detect a 16-times increase in the number of cases, act, and still be soon enough for the next 200-times increase not to be a tragedy, it is a good time to leave the quarantine. Right now Italy can't stand the first increase. The good news is that each time the disease spreads, those numbers become smaller, the bad n…

> Isn't Italy in a pretty bad shape to restart the virus spread right now? It won't be able to hold a long-standing quarantine. Probably a couple of months tops. That's not even mentioning the economy. As I said, endured isolation will have very bad side effects.

You know, after a short search and calculation, it looks like today there are about 4 times more people dying in your country than usual. That's pretty big. In a couple of weeks, there will probably be nearly no new cases, so you can detect growth without it immediately being a disaster.

Yes, there are economic consequences, but the alternative is quite a lot of avoidable deaths.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#638

Post by sago »

steveeq1 wrote: post #168
sago wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly I think the effect might be the opposite. The massive financial hardship seems poised for a backlash where a group promoting 'economy above all else' will gain the support of millions who feel their financial future has been unfairly taken. I see little threads fraying already. I have heard even normally fairly left-leaning people saying variations of 'this will kill more people from poverty'.

What if that ends up being true?

I think that's also a worrying possibility. It might be true.

Whether or not you think 'left-leaning' is the correct ideology, I would expect more left-leaning people to reject the 'either-or'. But to think that the government should be enacting policies to avoid casualties from both disease and poverty, not choosing one or the other. I.e. distributing the financial damage across everyone in proportion to their existing affluence.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#639

Post by kirykl »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #372
kirykl wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government does have stockpiles for emergencies, mandated buffers will guarantee overproduction and affect market equilibrium

> The government does have stockpiles for emergencies As you can see now, it doesn't. Neither does any other government.

Your hatred of lean is confusing, Companies exist to make money why would they hold extra inventory ?

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#640

Post by neycoda »

stupandaus wrote: post #24

A few things to note: 1. These figures are only new claims as of 3/21, so the numbers will get worse. 2. This is ~2% of the estimated ~160-165M US Workforce. 3. This is nearly 5x (!) the prior record of 671K new jobless claims from 1982, and redefines the scale for jobless claims. [1] 4. This does not account for the countless gig workers that are part of the modern economy that likely did not file for unemployment s…

This goes to show how negatively-impacting ignoring health officials is.
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