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قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

nas.sr

631–640 of 657 posts

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#631
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I hate it! It's like how every function in Excel is translated as well. `=SUMMEWENNS(…` Complete nonsense, it makes my eyes bleed.

For some reason I've always found programming language keywords translated to my native language extremely cringeworthy. I wonder if native English speakers get the same experience for mainstream programming languages or it is just a consequence of novelty.

The words aren’t cringeworthy but having to decide them leads to arguments over what precisely to name something.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason why e.g. air traffic control speaks english no matter the ethnicity (as per the ICAO standard). Yes. The reason is that air traffic control inherently requires people from different regions and languages to communicate quickly in life or death situations. Ease of being an air-traffic controller is not a primary motivating factor, and getting more diverse input isn't really a useful feature. On the…

> Programming in a foreign language is a pretty significant barrier. There are only a handful of English words you have to memorize. Music students have to memorize a handful of Italian words to follow written music. It hasn't been a problem.

Standard libraries are large and named in English. It's a lot more than a few English words.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#633

It is, of course, a persistent myth among programmers that the majority of language keywords we use are in English. I will grant that some of the words share a spelling with English words that have different meanings, but most of the core words we use are not ever used with the same meaning in non-programming contexts. I would submit that the following keywords common to a number of languages are not meaningfully ‘En…

If you only consider keywords then sure.

But think about standard libs. All of those functions and types are named with English words.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I should be able to read code written anywhere in the world and understand what it does" You cannot read tons of code written in the 1C language [0] unless you know Russian, but I don't think it's a loss for you or for Russians because it's a scripting language used by a suit of enterprise software dealing mostly with ever changing Russian accounting standards and tax code [1]. At the same time it's economically eff…

Anyone with experience in 1C/tales of 1C? I've been curious about it since discovering it existed.

Not me :) If you are interested in something specific I could try to google (or should I say 'to yandex' in this case?) that for you and hopefully you'll be able to read it with the help of Google Translate.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#635
post #3

Oh, it's just an art project. We haven't yet seen a serious non-English programming language. One would have expected one in Chinese or Japanese by now. There was COBOL in French, once, with French words and word order, but it never caught on, even in Francophone countries.

>We haven't yet seen a serious non-English programming language Who is "we"? 1C is a Russian-based domain-specific language that dominates accounting in Russia and neighboring ex-USSR countries[1]. It competes with SAP, and made its founder a billionaire[2]. [1] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/1С:Предприятие [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-15/a-russian...

There's also yoptascript: https://yopta.space

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#636
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for those who professionally speak Mathematics; which is the audience APL was made to serve, after all. Amusing so many programmers will complain how they feel horribly excluded by APL, but see no issue with every other programming language in existence speaking exclusively ASCII English. At least Math is a true lingua franca, unlike our awful Saxon bodge. I know which I'd be safer speaking when Aliens come to vi…

But math is also very difficult to understand. The information density on all of the symbols is too high and it's easy to misunderstand (or not understand) as a result. I've met very few people who were comfortable with reading math, even fairly simple things that they otherwise understand.

“But math is also very difficult to understand.”

Sure it is, if you’re not a professional mathematician. For those who are, it is a fabulously precise concise system of communication. The same can be said for “legalese”, “medicalese”, or any other specialist language that provides its specialist users with unrivaled efficiency and power of expression.

Whereas laypeople require lay language; which is why the best communicators are fluent in both, able to communicate complex ideas to both peers and public at a level and in a language that fits each audience.

That so many programmers resist – even belittle – attempts to understand and close the accessibility gap in their own constructed languages speaks volumes of what piss-awful communicators they really are; and how – rather than break that shortcoming down and work to improve it – they weaponize it to keep all those who are not like them out and so maintain their exclusive control at the expense of everyone else.

..

Remember, the point of software is not to encapsulate programming knowledge, it is to encapsulate business (or other expert domain) knowledge. That is where the program’s actual value is, and all that classes and types and conditionals and loops and whatnot crap is just a lot of bureaucratic bullshit that must be waded through when encoding that expert knowledge in unspecialized languages of poor expressive power.

Making programming languages accessible and useful to users operating in other domains will take far more than just some l10n sugar. Still, anything that can improve access for the 5Bn humans who don’t speak English, never mind “ASCIInerdese”, is a positive move.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#637
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I am pretty sure there must be Japanese ones. Seeing how little of English Japanese programmers speak, there must surely be one. EDIT: Of course there is! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolittle_(programming_language...

They exist, but it seems the vast majority of japanese programmers are using english-based languages.

As far as I know, Ruby seems like a favorite for the Japanese. [Ruby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)), which is of Japanese origin and is English based.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#638
post #590

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Right. So about your bank, you're sure none of the owners speak Hebrew? What I'm saying is, is that your head is up your ass if you believe bits on a computer are more significant than the words we speak. By proxy and according to my measurements, human language is a larger factor than programming language. Re.: antisemitism: Jews are pretty good. Plenty of groupings I like less. I know Hebrew should be all over the…

Not sure what this is supposed to mean but please keep flamebait off HN. Antisemitic provocation certainly is that.

Please don't lecture me on antisemitism because my post went over your head. You're both wrong and obscuring the fact that Hebrew truly is a language conducive to accountancy and banking. That being widely known (+ the availability of language learning resources) is an antidote to antisemitism. As a matter of fact, the flagging of my post and your comment are both manifestations of antisemitism.

It's not "racist" or "immoral" or "divisive" to note that different languages have different properties. To claim otherwise is harmful at best, and evil at worst.

This reaction is exactly why I added the footnote. I truly dislike most people. Jews are better than average in my eyes. I've supported Israel in the past, and it's still a country I'd like to visit some day. Leave me alone with your politics. I don't give a shit about what groups of smelly meatsacks you want to attack or defend.

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something about non-English comments in source code is really off-putting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cringe

I am sorry, what? I do not dismiss my own culture as inferior to the cultures of other countries. Not at all.

[deleted]

Re: قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic

#640
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that doesn't really solve the mystery. The German "für" doesn't have any closer connection with loops than English "for".

e.g. in Sums or Products, with $$ Σ_(i=0)^(20) x² $$ you'd actually pronounce that as "summe für i = 0 bis 20 von x²", which is a good argument for where it might be from.

Yes, though isn't that the same when pronouncing math in English? (So it's a good explanation, but doing the detour via German doesn't give us any extra enlightenment?)
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