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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#631

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

newnewpdro wrote: post #346
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair. But it's hard for me to imagine a future in which Tesla grows at a better rate than SpaceX.

What are you smoking? The market for automobiles is basically the entire world's adult population. Space rockets not so much.

The automobile market is competitive. The automobile industry doesn't have impressive margins. It's not growing, either.

Rocket launch demand is growing like crazy. The market is not competitive. And if SpaceX doesn't fuck up, it likely never will be. In that kind of market, margins will be impressive.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#632

Post by _ea1k »

dannyw wrote: post #452
shimms wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: The demand for the semi-premium model outweighed the standard by 6 to 1, so no, the demand is right where the new obvious entry model is. It is still technically available, but not in any obvious way (if you weren’t to already know, it’d be fair enough to assume it wasn’t available anymore).

That’s because they called literally every SR purchaser and hard sold them to get SR+; and said SR was many months away from delivery.

That was part of it, but also an extra $2,500 for 20 miles more range and a much nicer car was a very appealing offer. I certainly would have taken it.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#633

Post by bluedino »

raiyu wrote: post #558
savrajsingh wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point — remember that Kodak released some of the first digital cameras. They still failed to switch fast enough.

The shift want just digital cameras it was also the iPhone that made the digital camera obsolete. With digital cameras they were losing film revenue which was larger than camera sales. Car companies don't own gas stations so they will switch faster and easier than Kodak. There will be some struggles internally but not as much I suspect. Plus modern EVs have demonstrated more performance then ice so it's really just a…

This made me think of the future of gas stations.

Will they just conver to charging stations, and charge customers to use them?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#634

Post by spamizbad »

_ea1k wrote: post #611
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not a joke. The Model 3 and Model S have relatively high NVH and a relatively cheap feeling interior compared to vehicles of the same class and price point. You're paying German car money but it goes to the drive-train instead of the "luxury German driving machine" experience. There's nothing wrong with that but to talk up Tesla's vehicles as though they're luxury cars is foolish.

I just can't agree with that on the model 3. The model 3 is basically BM 3 series money, and there is nothing particularly phenomenal about the BMW 3 series from a luxury standpoint.

Are you talking about the elusive $35,000 model 3s? Because most Teslas sell for 5-series and E-class prices.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#635

Post by base698 »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #306
base698 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Model S last year and around the time of weedgate I decided the risk was too great and sold the car. It seems from the used market that the value has plummeted. The one I bought is easy $40k less just a year old. Repairs and parts availability is one of the biggest risks. Could easily see situations where a small fender bender causes a total loss.

a lot of cars rapidly depreciate in the first year. A model S losing almost half its value in a year or so is no incredible shock.

Last year this time some of the same models selling for $40k in the used market were $80k. These were for some of the oldest cars in the pre-owned segment.

The biggest hit to value came with the Tesla price lowering.

Id expect a 20% loss but not 50%. Porsche and Lexus don't lose 50% the first year.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#636

Post by _ea1k »

cjhopman wrote: post #402
cjhopman wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: "Not by a lot, but I am optimistic about being profitable in Q1 and all quarters going forward."

Note that that quote was already almost 1 month into the Q1 where they lost nearly $1 billion.

Yeah, they also affirmed guidance of similar S and X sales to Q4 at the same time. By that point, they should have had a pretty good idea that those would drop. There is a real credibility problem here.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#637

Post by sixQuarks »

whttheuuu wrote: post #383
ckastner wrote: post #361

Well, I guess that explains the Autonomy Day [1] event from just two days ago where they presented themselves as the Pack Leader, when everyone else knows it's Waymo (by far). Quoting user RivieraKid [2]: Take a moment and think about why are they doing this event now. Elon is setting a stage for a capital raise, he's pitching the autonomy narrative after the Model 3 cash cow narrative failed. They're trying to convi…

I'm very very skeptical that Waymo is far ahead, if ahead at all. Tesla has already an impressive product on the road that is constantly improving. Waymo could (likely) go the way of vaporware for all we know.

To me, it's obvious Tesla will win the autonomy race (unless Elon dies prematurely).

I believe Elon's greatest strength is his ability to accurately predict reality (physics), perhaps better than anyone alive right now.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#638

Post by bryanlarsen »

hef19898 wrote: post #480
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

> Advantage competition: scaling production and delivery, economies of scale

Really? Evidence suggests otherwise.

Hyundai Kona Electric: huge backorders, yet they only made 2000 of them in February. https://insideevs.com/news/343420/hyundai-kona-electric-prod...

Audi eTron: 2019 production targets lowered 20% to 45K/year. https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production...

Jaguar seems to be doing OK with the iPace, but they only sold 1400 of them in February, and of course Jaguar as a car company is a similar size to Tesla.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#639

Post by navigatesol »

_ea1k wrote: post #621
navigatesol wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The production ramp for the Y is expected to be much better than the model 3. There's two announced locations (Reno and China). Tesla also has substantial experience building the model 3, and the Y shared about 75% of the parts. Additionally the model Y is a very conservative design. Same motors, same batteries, same nav, same display, same steering wheel, same seats, same autonomous hardware, same sensors, etc. Th…

> Now we hear Tesla don't even know if they're going to build it in China or California. I believe you are confused here. The car will be built in China for some markets. The part that hasn't been decided is where US production will occur. The most logical place has been guessed to be GF1 in Sparks, NV, but they have considered California as well (possibly Fremont expansion).

>The part that hasn't been decided is where US production will occur.

Point still stands: they ordered machinery when they don't even know what factory it will go in. Anyone with a modicum of sense or experience in manufacturing understands this is nonsensical.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#640

Post by loceng »

Aromasin wrote: post #574
loceng wrote: post #537

They are making all of the right moves. Assuming the Tesla chip is as they say it is - which is more believable because of their presentation and because of the lead engineer they brought on for it, and if we believe their expected improvements during the next chip version - along with the fleet of robotaxis and the Tesla Network taking 30-40% revenue share will on its own bankroll whatever issues they may have; I ca…

Unfortunately I think the people that will suffer most from mass-automation still don't believe that their job can be automated. Speaking to taxi drivers, to them it's a foreign concept sometimes spoke about briefly in the news that may or may not come around in 20 years when they're retired, so they don't need to worry. Yang's "Freedom dividend" won't be appealing to them until the day they're passed on the road by…

It's definitely a concern.
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