Live data from Hacker News

“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

mail.python.org

631–640 of 764 posts

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software construction shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy. It almost feels like hero worship.

Or maybe Linus isn’t afraid to say what’s on his mind, and that’s why people respect him. You should try it some time. I know when I started doing it on here, my karma plummeted (real world analogue is “reputation” or social standing). But at least my conscience is clear.

There is a difference between speaking your mind vs berating or insulting people.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#632
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's amazing he managed to not explode at somebody. Like a certain other BDFL occasionally does?

Don’t know why you are being downvoted. Linus’s tirades and diatribes are famous for how brutally personal they get. I still maintain that they are a waste of time and he would be a more effective leader if he limited his responses to “this is a bad idea” or “this isn’t done right” instead of writing pages long personal attacks on other members of the project.

I'm not familiar with these specific cases but I do think that many popular open source authors are extremely rigid and uncompromising. And yes, personal attacks against prospective contributors is a very harmful thing for the project. There are nicer ways to reject PRs and proposals that don't push away contributors.

Also, I'm a firm believer that very talented people can make very silly mistakes sometimes so you can't assume that someone has no value for your project just because their work or idea was disappointing on a single occasion.

When open source project leaders show aggression towards well-meaning people, it's a blatant display of arrogance and egomania.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#633
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's amazing he managed to not explode at somebody. Like a certain other BDFL occasionally does?

Don’t know why you are being downvoted. Linus’s tirades and diatribes are famous for how brutally personal they get. I still maintain that they are a waste of time and he would be a more effective leader if he limited his responses to “this is a bad idea” or “this isn’t done right” instead of writing pages long personal attacks on other members of the project.

Being 'brutal' is sometimes ok if the brutality is more like 'exposing reality' in nature, and pointed at a situation, not at individuals.

Personal attacks are totally counterproductive, demeaning, and just mean. When they are public, it's especially way out of bounds and I have no respect for someone who does that, it shows a lack of emotional maturity and confidence.

There are definitely idiots in the world, but you don't go around calling them idiots, and certainly not in public. You don't even call their solutions 'idiotic'. You can say: "This approach is completely wrong, here's why and here are some alternatives" as a fairly callous-yet-acceptable response.

Being unduly cold or callous shows a lack of diplomacy, and as Engineers sometimes we are all guilty of that a little bit, but being specifically derogatory is just bad.

More on topic: congratulations to Guido for his contributions. None of us can never know how hard that was, and how much his contributions have helped so many.

Bravo Zulu.

I wish someone, in some respected 'institution', would give him some kind of medal, or the like.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#634
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have time to dig up more studies but I certainly could if I was paid to. My claim is true and all research on this topic has overwhelmingly confirmed my claim on male group behavior in apes, humans included. In any case I've acted in good faith to contribute positively to the discourse. I haven't antagonized anyone and I've provided relevant new information that might shine new light on the discussion at han…

The problem is that they aren't new ideas in the sense that matters here. They fall into very well-grooved grooves and we know from experience where those lead. It isn't groovy. When we moderate HN like this, we don't mean to imply that you weren't posting in good faith. We're just being vigilant about what is known to cause flamewars. Flamewars are the #1 problem here because they consume everything they touch and c…

What would be new in the sense that matters? I think it was a natural flow of discussion: someone gives their perspective on an event, another person shares a related scientific fact that supports that perspective. You aren't being clear, instead you are throwing out abstract words like flamewar, flamebait, groovy, etc. I'm not getting the memo. Please be specific, what exactly was wrong with that post? Do you have a standardized list of topics that you guys censor for fear of flamewars? Can you share that list with the community? If not, this seems arbitrary, illiberal, anti-intellectual, dictatorial.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#635
post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider: It's fun.

Software construction shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy. It almost feels like hero worship.

Every other industry has “celebrities”, or otherwise popular/infamous professionals, why should software be any different; because it’s more pure?

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#636
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they aren't new ideas in the sense that matters here. They fall into very well-grooved grooves and we know from experience where those lead. It isn't groovy. When we moderate HN like this, we don't mean to imply that you weren't posting in good faith. We're just being vigilant about what is known to cause flamewars. Flamewars are the #1 problem here because they consume everything they touch and c…

What would be new in the sense that matters? I think it was a natural flow of discussion: someone gives their perspective on an event, another person shares a related scientific fact that supports that perspective. You aren't being clear, instead you are throwing out abstract words like flamewar, flamebait, groovy, etc. I'm not getting the memo. Please be specific, what exactly was wrong with that post? Do you have a…

Sorry, but this is the classic legalistic gambit of the troll.

It's not hard to figure out the intended use of the site. If you don't want to use it that way, please don't post here and please don't make new accounts to get around the restrictions.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#637
post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indentation should be almost the same as any other language. Unless you have an aversion to consistent code-style. Python whitespace was only annoying for me years ago when it still had trouble handling tabs and spaces in the same file, and you would run into literally invisible bugs. I haven't run into that in a long time, though.

tabs would be much better, but unfortunately pep8 dictates spaces.

For submissions to the language. For your own stuff, knock yourself out and tab away.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#638
post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider: It's fun.

Software construction shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy. It almost feels like hero worship.

This whole industry shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#639
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they aren't new ideas in the sense that matters here. They fall into very well-grooved grooves and we know from experience where those lead. It isn't groovy. When we moderate HN like this, we don't mean to imply that you weren't posting in good faith. We're just being vigilant about what is known to cause flamewars. Flamewars are the #1 problem here because they consume everything they touch and c…

What would be new in the sense that matters? I think it was a natural flow of discussion: someone gives their perspective on an event, another person shares a related scientific fact that supports that perspective. You aren't being clear, instead you are throwing out abstract words like flamewar, flamebait, groovy, etc. I'm not getting the memo. Please be specific, what exactly was wrong with that post? Do you have a…

[deleted]

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#640
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be new in the sense that matters? I think it was a natural flow of discussion: someone gives their perspective on an event, another person shares a related scientific fact that supports that perspective. You aren't being clear, instead you are throwing out abstract words like flamewar, flamebait, groovy, etc. I'm not getting the memo. Please be specific, what exactly was wrong with that post? Do you have a…

Sorry, but this is the classic legalistic gambit of the troll. It's not hard to figure out the intended use of the site. If you don't want to use it that way, please don't post here and please don't make new accounts to get around the restrictions.

What is legalistic gambit of the troll? Are you calling me a troll? Look at my history, does that bear out? Now you're telling me not to use the site? I'm sitting here taking my time trying to be as precise as possible with my thoughts. How can I make it any more clear I'm acting in good faith? I'm rapidly becoming more and more confused about this entire thread and neither you nor sctb have been specific, that is clear for anyone to see. Your refusal to be specific when I've directly asked you to clarify is especially worrisome. Please really try to empathize with me here, how would you feel if you were in my position? I'm trying to engage honestly here.
Post reply on HN