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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass surveillance is not really for investigating individuals. The game being played is not '1984', it is 'Foundation'. It is for steering entire societies, and this works far better on the boring people who think they have nothing to hide as they are the easiest to model

I agree the greater emphasis is Foundation -style analysis, but really, it's for both.

I've been working a theory that what we are seeing in the last 10 years or so is the escape of these techniques from government into private industry.

With a single powerful player, you get a consistent, but slightly false narrative. If you have lots of players though, you get multiple competing narratives and the news stops making sense.

Is partly why I still think Gibson is one of the people who got it closest to the mark.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the discussion in this thread doing such a thing seems relatively easy. Obligatory Orwell: “The most gifted of [the Proletariate], who might possibly become a nuclei of discontent, are simply marked down by the Thought Police and eliminated.”

Yep, that's on the simpler end of the spectrum, they can/could be far more insidious and subtle. It's horrible but beyond supporting ORG, EFF and writing to my MP (I'm in the UK) not sure what else I can do, even if I protect myself from it my family and friends are still potentially fucked.

Advise everyone you know to keep their phones in foil potato chip bags?

https://www.thedailymeal.com/australian-man-fired-potato-chi...

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#633
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is once it's at the cell carrier level it doesn't even matter if you use a dumb phone. They know roughly where you are based on tower triangulation.

As an amateur radio operator, I would expect nothing less for carrying a highly networked radio transceiver with loads of sensors including geopositioning. Simply put: don't want to be tracked? Put your phone in a lead sealed box or leave it at home. Tracking only tracks the phone , not your person.

Unless your car has similar technology.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#634

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

I agree some of this is happening but some things don't add up. Is there a huge delay in this data? Because why don't law agencies use it to find criminals? Like I have 2 crimes at these two locations. Who was around these 2 locations at these times etc. But if hedge funds are trading on it, they need very low latencies?

Law agencies are using it, with some controversy:

https://www.wral.com/Raleigh-police-search-google-location-h...

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I have to say to that is that regardless of how you feel about them the US picked Trump and the UK picked Brexit. These were both events that demonstrated that elite opinion was so cloistered the rubes started throwing molotovs at the political system, in some cases just for the cheap laugh in the voting booth. Yes, the UK absolutely needs additional dissent.

Really? Didn't you just demonstrate that when the "rubes" are given power, they vote Brexit and Trump? That seems like a terrible idea.

If you create a dielectric barrier, the required charge to overcome it can have more effective power than the constant flow that would otherwise occur at a low resistance.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help. Your next car will support telemetrics. Your insurer will know how fast and how often you drive. Your wife will know where you've been going after work. The cloud will gather and retain everything else of non-obvious value, up to the point where it all magically disappears when your self-piloting car drives itself through a schoolyard at recess and the company claims they don't have enough data to de…

Parts of your analysis are hyperbole, clearly, and I think that undercuts what are several very important points. There are still areas in which you can make choices. You can still buy appliances with no internet connections at all, or buy open hardware and run open source software. This is what I currently do. Surely inexpensive and/or used cars will dispense with GPS and other high tech features; in addition, I wou…

The thing is, we've already been there and done that. You think you have choices, but you won't for long. We're all boiling one degree at a time.

> You can still buy appliances with no internet connections at all, or buy open hardware and run open source software.

Maybe, if you know what to look for. Most consumers don't. They'll buy a Dell and not realize Computrace exists. I work in the field and I don't even know a fraction of what I don't know. I'm just one asshole defending against legions of better-paid actors with an infinite capacity for insidiousness.

Just wait until some well-meaning, progressive state like California decides to legislate that all houses must be smart-conforming. All aspects of your house will have a network interface whether you like it or not. How many homeowners are capable of setting up VLANs for their lightbulbs? How many homeowners are going to deconstruct every (networked by default!) smart-item they purchase and check for motion sensors, cameras and microphones? The NSA backdoored smart TVs already. Huawei backdoored routers, and Blu sends god-knows-what to China in the background. It's happening.

In this day and age, you may as well assume every product that comes out of Silicon Valley is a glorified exfiltration agent. If you give anything a network interface, by god it's going to use it to report something, and you don't know that it's happening or what's being communicated. You-have-no-control.

Given the recent interest in mesh networking I expect that to become a new vector-- install enough Huawei appliances in an area (give them away for free, or undercut competing vendors), each serving as a wireless mesh node, and you only need one internet-facing node (like a Huawei cellphone or router) in that mesh to be able to command and control any of the devices or peripherals around it. If anybody questions why a digital pictureframe is emitting wireless signals, it's for the discovery service, of course. It has to get updated weather information from somewhere, right? Consumers will accept that. And thus you invite a decentralized botnet into your home.

> Surely inexpensive and/or used cars will dispense with GPS and other high tech features; in addition, I wouldn't be surprised if (should this become a regular problem) a modding community develops around car ownership (ownership in the sense of right-to-modify).

Used cars will, until that pool dries up, yes. How many cars can you find that still use carburetors in favor of ECU-controlled fuel injectors?

We lost the right-to-modify battle the day ECUs became standard in all cars, inexpensive or not. Without proprietary knowledge, you can dink around with the oil and tires, but you can't fundamentally change how the car works. You can't even change the brake fluid on some cars without a proprietary command telling the pump to expel it. The war for right-to-modify will be lost when we're all driving Teslas (or John Deeres).

You can hack it, sure, about as competently as you can hack a PS4 or iPhone. The day will inevitably come where you want to use a particular app or service you paid a premium for (like warranty repairs, autopilot, PS Online or iTunes) and they'll tell you to pound sand unless you install their factory-certified firmware that opts-in to tracking. Or new games/features will simply refuse to work on your hacked firmware. You will be left in the dust.

That also assumes your insurer doesn't find out you tampered with an otherwise autonomous car, potentially impacting its safety features by refusing OTA updates and putting you in a higher risk pool. They may decline to insure you altogether.

There are consequences for not complying with progress; you yourself mention one of them. I'm disappointed you think it's hyperbole-- this attitude is why things have degraded to the current state of affairs.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of your analysis are hyperbole, clearly, and I think that undercuts what are several very important points. There are still areas in which you can make choices. You can still buy appliances with no internet connections at all, or buy open hardware and run open source software. This is what I currently do. Surely inexpensive and/or used cars will dispense with GPS and other high tech features; in addition, I wou…

The thing is, we've already been there and done that. You think you have choices, but you won't for long. We're all boiling one degree at a time. > You can still buy appliances with no internet connections at all, or buy open hardware and run open source software. Maybe, if you know what to look for. Most consumers don't. They'll buy a Dell and not realize Computrace exists. I work in the field and I don't even know…

>You can't even change the brake fluid on some cars without a proprietary command telling the pump to expel it.

What car brand does this? The only thing that came up on a Google search was a comment on Quora that said that mechanics can command the ABS to go into a self bleed cycle to purge air (no brand was mentioned). Is this what you're referencing?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#639

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

I am a journalist for a major news organization and would like to know specifics about hedge funds and the like and how they use this data. Reach me at sfrancisbjr@gmail.com

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#640

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

I am a journalist and would like to know more. Reach me at sfrancisbjr@gmail.com if you can help.
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