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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#631

Post by mildbow »

joncalhoun wrote: post #580
mildbow wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Why do they hate her? 2. Do they consider him not racist/sexist because they are a little bit too? (Not trying to be inflammatory) 3. I hate it too. 4b. Why are they hurting? Why is median household income so low?

I live in a small deep-red town, so I'll try to give my take on a few here. 2. Imagine you lived in a town where 99% of the population is not racist, but that 1% that is racist is blatantly so. They don't do thing subtly, but they openly use racial slurs and make it known that they don't like or trust people of a certain ethnicity. Now imagine someone comes into town and when they happen to see someone of color they…

2. That makes sense.

4. Definitely a horrible situation to be in. What do they/you think Trump has promised to do that might make an actual difference?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#632

Post by mikeash »

Arizhel wrote: post #505
mikeash wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative talk radio, and other similar media, have spent decades vilifying her. According to them, she has helped her husband prey on women, has had people killed to cover up crimes, is trying to push for a takeover of the US by the United Nations, and much, much more. Not much of this is connected to reality, but that just doesn't matter.

The part about her helping her husband prey on women has at least some truth to it. There's no shortage of women over the decades who have accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault; I think it's rather silly to claim that Billy is completely innocent. So just as with any rapist, a woman who insists on staying married to such a man and backing him up in public can be seen as "enabling" him. Honestly, I don't think all th…

I'm not talking about "enabling" like not getting a divorce, I mean stuff like having witnesses killed.

I became convinced this past fall that the criticism was utterly unfair, because her fiercest opponents could never come up with anything beyond "emails" and "Benghazi" over and over again.

In any case, it doesn't matter whether it's fair, they shouldn't have run her. If she's widely hated then that affects things regardless of whether it's "fair."

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#633

Post by dlp211 »

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #623
dlp211 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your former argument/question, but this applies to a small fraction of people on both sides, but unfortunately causes us to paint with a broad brush. As to free speech, I assume you are talking about people like Milo, to which I will say that he has never had his free speech violated. Free speech is not an entitlement to a forum, it is a right that guarantees that the government will not interfere with y…

> Free speech is not an entitlement to a forum, it is a right that guarantees that the government will not interfere with your speech, but even that has some limitations. That's a pretty narrow and legalistic idea that's often deployed to excuse some pretty terrible behavior by private parties. Yes, it's accurate if you're talking legalistically about First Amendment free speech rights, but there's a more general pri…

Do those protesters not have autonomy to choose what they hear or whom may speak at their organization? Are they not allowed to say that an idea has no purpose except to poison and thus should not be uttered?

You may not agree with the protesters, but they too have rights and autonomy.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#634

Post by mLuby »

mikeash wrote: post #345
dboreham wrote: post #21

Honestly not sure this sheds much light. Doesn't it boil down to: I always vote Republican regardless, sorry. I vote according to my pet wedge issue (usually guns or abortion), sorry. I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that. The alternative candidate wasn't very appealing so I figured why not? I liked the idea of a bomb-thrower, sorry.

"I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that." This one always gets me. We're told, over and over again, that these people are tired of being called whatever-ist and that we should start being nice to them if we want their support. Well, I'm sorry, but if you weren't so freakin' racist, we wouldn't keep pointing it out. If you don't want to be called sexist and ignorant, stop electing people who try to…

Is it appropriate to work with racists to end racism?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#635

Post by rhapsodic »

nbardy wrote: post #380

> Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar Caucasians resonated with him. This is one of the most startling facts of this election to me. Trump got the support of these people with emotional rhetoric that had little basis in reality. By putting on a hat and giving people groups to blame he positioned himself as a champion of the people besides his past showing is the complete opposite. Trump has spent…

Or to put it more simply, you think people voted for Trump because they're stupid and/or ignorant.

I hope a lot of Democrats keep thinking that for a long time.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#636

Post by sctb »

st3v3r wrote: post #195

"For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters" If you support a candidate who espouses racist, sexist, xenophobic, and general bigoted views, a candidate who was caught on tape as bragging about sexual assault, then it is not unfair to paint you as supporting those things. To me, anyone who supports Trump has declared their support for those things. And it is on them to prove that they are…

We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13698168.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#637

Post by ZeroGravitas »

ameister14 wrote: post #425
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it unproductive though? Humans are social animals, and like to know they're doing the "right" thing, where "right" is often defined by what everyone else is doing. A common example of this kind of "social proof" is a counter productive littering campaign that told people that everyone was doing it. So people thought, well if it's good enough for them. It seems clear to me that people don't like being called racist…

Blasphemy laws didn't make people more religious. They just made it so people didn't talk about it. It's the same here.

What about lots of people talking openly about not believing in religion anymore and how it's kinda dumb? Does that have an effect?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#638

Post by justinsaccount »

2pointsomone wrote: post #109

I still still still, for the life of me, don't understand why a large number of people have labelled Hillary "corrupt". Someone please explain? (am I naive to believe that having a private email server wasn't much of an offense, she was just doing her job in the Benghazi case, and that the Clinton Foundation has only ever meant to do good?)

I recall someone calling her "crooked Hillary" for a year, I think that may have something to do with it.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#639

Post by godshatter »

robbiemitchell wrote: post #206

How did so many people get the wrong idea about what "freedom of speech" means? The right to say something without the government arresting you is a far cry from an imagined right to be heard by everyone about whatever you want to say.

"Freedom of speech" is an inalienable right that everyone has. The first amendment explains in what ways this right may be infringed by the government. When people talk about "freedom of speech", they are not talking about what the restrictions on the government are, they are talking about this basic individual right.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#640

Post by mikeash »

spaethnl wrote: post #605
mcphage wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't demonize people for wanting to ask legitimate questions and have legitimate discussions. You also can't claim that merely asking those questions will lead to demonization or ostracism, since we recently freely elected a leader who asks such questions.

Electing Trump doesn't contradict OPs perception. Just because Trump won doesn't mean everyone is surrounded by Trump supporters. In fact, I am pretty left-leaning, as are most of my friends, co-workers, social-circle, and neighborhood.. Trump is not popular in the context of my life. However, I don't agree with all of the left dogma. While I can talk frankly about my criticisms of those topics with close friends, ev…

There are people who will freak out if you question the existence of a deity, or propose that maybe climate change isn't entirely a leftist hoax, or that a Prius battery will last more than five years. That doesn't mean these topics are off limits in general.
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