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GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

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Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#631

Post by mc32 »

argonaut wrote: post #613
mc32 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France takes this stance on matters of race. So much so any numbers regarding race in France are simply estimates because there are no official numbers. In practice so far, it hasn't fared any better, but probably not worse either. Like in the U.S., one of the biggest hindrances or obstacles to success is segregation (forced or by choice). Wanting success essentially entails assuming the culture and practices of the…

Do you look non-Asian? If you do, you will never be fully accepted in Chinese society, as I've heard from a few white people that have lived in China. Even if you marry and settle down there and raise kids.

I'm not saying be undistinguishable from native Chinese, I'm saying adapt to the culture and you'll do better. Don't think, "I'm going native" think of it as transitioning into the mainstream of Chinese society. Celebrate New Years with your coworkers, eat the local fare, defer to ancestor worship, observe deference to elders, etc... the things that allow locals to function within their society. You don't go ahead and show them how "guanxi" is bad, etc. you function within the local framework.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#632

Post by argonaut »

proc0 wrote: post #598
Lazare wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People CANNOT be categorized based on skin color at all, AT ALL. People are categorized in that manner every day. Perhaps you're trying to say that's regrettable and inaccurate? > To identify even yourself as belonging to a distinct "color" is just a fabrication of American culture Certainly, but it's a culture which still exists. It doesn't go away just because you announce that it's illogical and unfortunate. I t…

Yes, I'm saying it's a wrong categorization, and inaccurate. People inaccurately categorize themselves as well. It would be more accurate to not refer to those categories as race, but as sub-cultures, because then it becomes something that isn't inherent to someone's identity. People of mixed race, for example, half "black", half "white", will often choose to be "black", and identify as such, when in fact, their race…

The problem is that people do it. Telling people to stop talking about it is not going to solve the problem while the reality remains that many, many people out there judge others based on race and other "inaccurate categorizations."

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#633

Post by rjzzleep »

rotw wrote: post #481
audessuscest wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like they trade "structure based purely on meritocracy" by "promote diversity". I don't see how this can go well. Meritocracy is important among dev and open source. And they don't care about political diversity. I can only imagine this new "culture of fear" where you can't hire white people (even woman). Skills and experiences should be the only way to choose who you hire, not race or gender. Anyway, looks lik…

The entire point of diversity initiatives is that the meritocracy in theory doest not translate into a meritocracy in practice, due to unconscious bias: https://library.gv.com/unconscious-bias-at-work-22e698e9b2d#... as well as other factors. You're totally right that skills and experiences should be the only way to choose, but right now, tech firms in this society are fundamentally incapable of actually implementing…

except that because of the original remote nature of Github the first thing you saw was their work and then the person. by changing the culture they are increasing a bias that may have been less prevalent or even non existent in such a work culture.

Trying to apply normal social dynamics to a play where you have a completely async environment(meaning they don't even see each other), is a little bit of a stretch.

A lot of interviews in tech don't even involve voice or face to face communication. If you take away looks, sound and name, what else is there besides quality of work?

see my comment below:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11050965

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#634

Post by oldmanjay »

douche wrote: post #442
morenoh149 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people don't like meritocracy /sarcasm

Meritocracy is only good for you if you're better than most people. It's in most people's interest to dislike meritocracy.

That's the core truth people don't seem to want to directly address. Most criticism of meritocracy approaches it from the angle that it is meant to give everyone an equal shot and has failed, when the real goal is to sift away those who can't contribute, at which it works marvelously (which isn't to say everyone who deserves a given shot gets one).

What some people seem to want instead is some sort of egalitocracy, but I have no idea how to make such a beast productive or useful, particularly for tech work, which has a fairly high intellectual bar.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#635

Post by argonaut »

EvanPlaice wrote: post #619
proc0 wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first, this talk is mostly about gender, which is completely different than race. If you think about what race really is, it's not what it seems (unlike sex and gender, which have not only a more consistent historical difference, and a stronger biological one as well). Race is more cultural than anything else. Sure it starts with physical traits, but whether or not you're black, white, or asian, does not depend…

And if somebody self identifies as trans-racial. All jokes aside, some white people grow up dirt poor in predominantly black neighborhoods and identify more with black Anerican culture then their own skin color. Do they get better access to schools, scholarships, government jobs, funding for small businesses? Etc... What about the black kid who grew up in the suburbs with a stable family and all whote friends. Should…

The problem is that white kid could dress up in a suit and tie, go into an interview, and be totally free of racial judgment (also dropping any obvious mannerisms). A black man can do that, including dropping any mannerisms, but they will still be black.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#636

Post by clinta »

obelisk_ wrote: post #232
jsksma2 wrote: post #220

Bring on the suits! While GH is busy distracting their world-class engineers with B.S. reverse-racism meetings, they will successfully free up their equity pool for more suit hires. That should suck the life out real quick... Goodbye revolutionary, forward-thinking work culture & hierarchy (meritocracy). You will be gravely missed. Good luck hiring sub-par engineers for the next 2 years and watching your data centers…

Well, what are the alternatives? Hosted: Bitbucket, GitLab Self-hosted: GitLab, Gogs None of these come close to GitHub in my experience.

I use GitLab at work and I think the only thing GitLab is lacking is the community. What do you find lacking in GitLab?

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#637

Post by avivo »

It's interesting to see how people react to this, in the context of the reactions to their first VC raise of 100 million dollars -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4220353

e.g. "They want to do bigger and better things with Github. They're not quite done trying to change the world. Now they are not only profitable, but they have substantial capital to invest in further innovations."

and "I bet nobody here as anything bad to say about the exceptional skills of the github team. However such a huge investment may force them to "overscale" in order to be able to reach the expected return (by the VC)."

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#638

Post by YuriNiyazov »

yoodenvranx wrote: post #198
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an arrest record? If not: there's the magic power. Statistically speaking, a poor young black male is much more likely to have an arrest record than a poor young white male. Edit: holy batman the downvotes. I never considered the possibility that maybe #hnwatch is right.

I live in Germany, so that does not really apply to me ;)

Sorry about my earlier Nazi comment, then.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#639

Post by oldmanjay »

argonaut wrote: post #618
13thLetter wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd love it if racism were to just disappear too. But wanting it to happen doesn't make it happen. The point being made here is that making the system even more racist is going to make the problem even worse. It's bad to assume Neal DeGrasse Tyson is a shoplifter because of the color of his skin. It's also bad (it may or may not be worse , but it is in no way good) to assume a person will discriminate against other…

The problem is proc0's comment is saying that any discussions of racism are racist and should be shut down. This is clearly wrong, because not talking about something does not make it go away.

If the discussion of racism is honest, it can help. There are generally no honest discussions of racism, however, because people cannot separate the emotional content sufficiently, and so most discussions are useless at best.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#640

Post by argonaut »

droopybuns wrote: post #494

The current dominant themes in certain feminism & diversity cliques in our community are openly hostile towards me. I'm a male. I'm white. I'm middle class. I'm heterosexual. I'm also a leader. I'm a parent of two daughters. My mother had to fight sexism issues in her career. I am supportive of inclusion & diversity. I am trying to raise my girls to be empowered, confident & curious. But the dominant themes in curren…

I don't know why you are so frustrated. It seems misplaced. The system is totally stacked in your favor (and my favor).
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