Apple’s declining software quality • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#631

Post by pekk » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:02 AM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #414

nostrademons wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I think it's a perception problem. As someone whose starry-eyed Mac obsession predated Windows 95 - Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio, and it was buggy under Jobs. I remember getting plenty of sad Macs under System 6 and 7, and early versions of OS X weren't any better. We just didn't care because Steve Jobs was really good at distracting us with promis…

>> Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio... Classic Mac OS was buggy by design - it didn't have multitasking and memory protection, it was single user... Windows had that same problem before 2000 (well, NT 4, but not many people used that). I use OS X daily and I use Windows 7 daily. I have far fewer issues with OS X for whatever reason that may be. My computers…

I don't use Windows very much, because I hate using Windows. But what I will give it is that I haven't seen a blue screen in the past decade for any reason short of bad memory, overheating, dead disk. I suspect that a lot of the Windows image problem is that people are free to buy really cheap hardware and fiddle with things they don't understand.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#632

Post by neximo4 » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:29 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #501

neximo4 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every update needs a restart. How does your mac update without a restart, the latter updates require an installation where OS X isn't running.

I'm saying updates have always required a restart. You said you remember a time when this was not the case, and I'm pretty sure such times never existed.

No they haven't. On the 'Steve Jobs' versions of OS X updates never needed a restart, such versions as Leopard, Snow Leopard and Lion. The only exception was on major updates where a DVD was required for the update.

They even used to use that it used to do this to bash windows.

The 'Steve Jobs' OS X versions were very refined. Somewhere around Lion everything went downhill. Mountain Lion's flaws were slowly more pronounced.

It also used to be than a new OS X version used to be faster despite it running on the same hardware. Its hard to say if this has changed.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#633

Post by thirdsun » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:34 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #69

ebbv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have rose colored glasses about Snow Leopard. It had plenty of bugs and hiccups. People deride the "iOS style" features of El Capitan but first, what specifically are you referring to besides Launcher? Do you think adding Notifications to OS X is bad? I find them extremely useful, and like the integration better than the spotty support Growler had among third party software. I never use Launcher but it's…

It's less about Snow Leopard having been supposedly perfect and more about how OS X feels like it's just floundered around randomly since then. In fact, for me, I can honestly say that OS X has almost strictly regressed in terms of my day-to-day experience. Spotlight now covers up way too much of the screen for almost no gain; if I'd wanted that, I'd have just used Alfred. Mission Control is still not as powerful and…

Very similar experience here: As a mac guy, I only have a single gaming / audio PC running Windows 10 in the living room and I'm very impressed with how snappy, useful and flawless everything works. Frankly, my usage on this machine is very limited - no development environment, editors or other applications, didn't even configure a mail client. Just Steam, Kodi and Roon.

I don't have any intention to switch platforms and still think the third party applications available on Windows are, while available in huge quantities, mostly subpar and terribly designed, however the core parts Microsoft delivers with the OS really, really impressed. Very solid.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#634

Post by vonklaus » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:38 AM UTC

pekk wrote: post #628

vonklaus wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, I couldn't put my finger on it, but this is why I am starting to hate apple. I spend a lot of time on the computer so I like a lot of things apple does, mostly the interface and the UI. To clarify what UI means to me, it is how simple and intuitive it is to use the device, and give it the instructions to do what I want. I am willing to forgive a lot because this is good. Apple has always been a fairly closed sys…

A lot of people in this thread seem to think this is all about Apple not adding enough revolutionary features or something. But consider this alternate explanation: with years of experience comes a more sophisticated judgement. What used to seem good enough now seems to have obvious flaws, even if it the same as it was before. Lack of control is an example: beginners often don't notice or care much, especially if it…

that is a good point as well. I definitely agree with it. The one thing I would add is that I repeatedly get update notifications on my iPhone. Due to the increase in lockdown of all features, I am legitimately afraid to update as the:

* provides security update

* increases iTunes performance

type descriptors, do not provide enough information about how they will fundamentally change my system. Most notably when I updated my iPhone and found out I loaded in some horribly inefficient talking pseudo AI that was not neutral, but a straight up negative feature consuming system resources.

I think you are really correct though, as you gain more experience and skill with technology you have more needs and better judgement. You can evaluate things better because you are aware of what is possible. The biggest problem isn't that they make changes, it is that those changes are not predictable so they become difficult to mitigate.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#635

Post by thirdsun » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:55 AM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #365

greggman wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clock has bugs. I've had alarms not go off 3 times in the last year. Pictures to prove it because when the alarm goes off it's no longer "on" (its switch is slide to the off position) so the fact that the switches are still on 30 minutes after the alarm time past means the alarm didn't go off. Nearly missed a flight. Music once it went flat UI is now complete crap. It drives me nuts all the time and I use it often be…

IMO the default music app being not very good is OK. The real sin is not allowing others to compete. Android default music player(play music, even the name is crap) is awful. But it's not a problem because there are literally hundreds of free and paid music players that will scratch your particular itch so well, that you won't be able to use anything else after that.

Have your tried something like Ecoute on iOS? It's a third party music player and I use it full time since Apple Music was trying show up everywhere in the music.app

Ecoute uses the same library as the default app, shows a nice simple grid or list of your albums/artists/playlists and is well designed. When you use any controls in either app it will be picked up in both. It doesn't matter in which app you start a playlist/play/pause/skip/whatever. With that in mind, using Ecoute as default app was as easy as replacing the icon in the dock. No need for a default music app setting in my opinion.

More here: http://www.pixiapps.com/ecouteios/

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#636

Post by thirdsun » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 8:03 AM UTC

mamcx wrote: post #580

petra wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most of this is unnecessary complexity.why haven't anybody came up with better tools to attack that ?

Because is harder to develop for developers. I'm dreaming to revive the kind of development made famous by FoxPro/dbase (or more exactly, mix Acces+Excel+Databases). Form building is another area that is far more complex that it need to be. The problem now is the multi-platform: Everyone (or most) want it, but not good toolkit exist to work on...

FileMaker comes to mind. It actually is a nice development platform for beginners, but has major shortcomings in other areas. Wouldn't recommend it these days.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#637

Post by SyneRyder » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 8:10 AM UTC

kobayashi wrote: post #193

SyneRyder wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reviewers seem to think the Surface Book trackpad isn't quite as good as the MacBook Pro, but it's close. (No idea if they're comparing against the new Force Touch trackpads, which I personally think are a regression): http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-surface-book-solving-...

hmmm, why do you feel that the new Force Touch trackpads are a regression? I've yet to use one, but I have other products that use Force Touch functionality, and I'm a big fan of my older Apple Trackpad.

I kept trying them in the Apple Store every week, and at first I thought it was amazing - it feels like an actual click! - but it feels like a mushy, unsatisfying click. The more I played with it, I noticed I was triggering lots of accidental clicks, accidentally moving files around on the desktop etc. I tried tweaking the settings (for sensitivity and click feel) but couldn't find any that gave me what I wanted. Disabling Force Touch and making the main Force Touch click standard for all clicks would be very close to what I want, but there's no way to do that.

I ended up purchasing a non-Retina MacBook Pro, in large part because of the trackpad. The click on the old 2012-era trackpad is sharp, solid, satisfying & deliberate, no accidental clicks.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#638

Post by thorin » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 8:11 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #391

Animats wrote: post #372

This has to be a management problem. Apple has total control over the hardware, total control over third party developers, and $203 billion in cash. What are they doing wrong? Apple has the resources to approach software like aerospace. Formal interface specs, heavy Q/A, tough regression tests, formal methods. It's expensive, but Apple ships so many copies that the cost per unit is insignificant. Microsoft did that,…

Nah, I think it's a perception problem. As someone whose starry-eyed Mac obsession predated Windows 95 - Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio, and it was buggy under Jobs. I remember getting plenty of sad Macs under System 6 and 7, and early versions of OS X weren't any better. We just didn't care because Steve Jobs was really good at distracting us with promis…

When you say the world doesn't care you might be nearly right from a consumer perspective but that's not really their target market. Outside of cool IT and design companies almost everyone's business machine is running Windows, a lot of servers are running windows too and sql server and visual studio are at an all time prominence for business software development.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#639

Post by camperman » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 8:29 AM UTC

"But I’d speculate that part of the problem Apple is having is that if it took 1,000 engineers to write software for Mac when that was the only product, it doesn’t necessarily take 4,000 people to write software for four product lines. In fact, 10,000 of the same grade of engineers might not even do it, especially without proper management and unified goals."

Nope. See Brooks' Law.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#640

Post by lostlogin » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 8:41 AM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #480

pwthornton wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that OS X is more reliable. I have both a Mac and a PC in my office, and my 5K iMac has never crashed. I had some weird issues with Windows 10 after I upgraded my laptop, where it would hang after an update.

I switched from using Windows for 20 years to OS X (excluding Linux for work related stuff.) This is the first time I've been able to work from a laptop with my productivity level as good or better than a desktop. The design and usability surpassed what I expected. I haven't noticed any bugs.

I can't imagine having a different brand of computer, but there are lots of OSX bugs that cause my teeth to grind. The Finder doesn't remember that I only want one layout ever, and it resets to a random alternative setting regularly. There are still progress bars that pop over, and can't be hidden. The data display which shows used disk space and it is nearly all "other" is a bug as far as I'm concerned. My AppleTV(8) has stopped incrementing itself, but its not ideal. And as a genuine question, has anyone not had strange Xcode behaviour or crashes at least once per day? I currently have a slow motion simulator that changes views over 5-10ish seconds.