Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#621

Post by volvelle »

chris_wot wrote: post #620
volvelle wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not the case. This is America, not Africa. There are scores of charities and organisations that can help. With some cursory Googling: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/legal-information . The author is happy to broadcast their account of this alleged assault to the public, so I don't think they'd have an issue reporting it to the authorities with the help of a charity. Statute of limitations is a fe…

I'm not saying that their are mechanisms in place for reporting. I'm saying that its often hard for the victim to seek help in the first place.

See earlier link to one of the numerous charities that explicitly support female victims of sexual assault. Is it too hard for someone in tech to Google 'Sexual Support $location'?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#622

Post by chris_wot »

volvelle wrote: post #621
chris_wot wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that their are mechanisms in place for reporting. I'm saying that its often hard for the victim to seek help in the first place.

See earlier link to one of the numerous charities that explicitly support female victims of sexual assault. Is it too hard for someone in tech to Google 'Sexual Support $location'?

It's not hard. The victim needs to be able to in the first place. Often they feel ashamed, which is crazy, sometimes they blame themselves even though its not their fault. That's the point I'm making.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#623

Post by volvelle »

chris_wot wrote: post #622
volvelle wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See earlier link to one of the numerous charities that explicitly support female victims of sexual assault. Is it too hard for someone in tech to Google 'Sexual Support $location'?

It's not hard. The victim needs to be able to in the first place. Often they feel ashamed, which is crazy, sometimes they blame themselves even though its not their fault. That's the point I'm making.

And it's moot - if the author is telling the truth.

The author is not ashamed to very publicly make these (as yet) unsubstantiated claims. I assume talking to an abuse charity in private, who help with a police prosecution, causes less shame.

The only reason I can think why someone would not go to the police is because independent witnesses (see earlier references to CCTV, the likely sober bartenders over drinking buddies) would not back up a claim.

This was a crowded bar, surrounded by many people. I can only surmise that the reason they have not sought a prosecution is because they are lying/misleading, and they know they will be caught out.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#624

Post by michaeldhopkins »

britta wrote: post #613
chris_wot wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was one of those people. I apologise if I brought more heat than light.

You did an admirable job of responding to piles of comments that needed Consent 101. (Civility isn't even the main problem here - so many of people's comments were superficially civil but callous and misinformed. HN needs empathy, compassion, willingness to listen. It's not impossible to shift culture - Metafilter has improved a lot, but doing that required human effort from its leaders and not just software.)

I am a happy member and longtime reader of MetaFilter but I wouldn't look to it as a positive example.

MetaFilter has several full-time moderators who, because they feel they need to be doing something, are stifling discussion and deleting a lot of threads. Many long-time, valuable members have left the site because of staff decisions.

Meanwhile, a group of noisy, low-value users are mostly allowed to bully others, mock people different than them and even write death threats from time to time.

MetaFilter prides itself on being a place that knows all about Consent™ etc. and maybe that is worth everything else, but it's not a place where people can get together and have a civil discussion.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#625

Post by Nutella4 »

pg wrote: post #602

I apologize to the world for this thread. There are clearly topics that an open forum, or at least this one, can't be trusted with, and this seems to be one of them. We have some ideas for new moderation features that we hope will make comment threads more civil. I don't know if they would have helped in this case though. The one thing that did work here is the flamewar detector. This story dropped off the frontpage…

I hope when you say you will make comment thread "more civil" you're not just talking about commenters calling each other names but are also considering the comments here in favor of sexual assault as unacceptable.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#626

Post by brohee »

"Hugs hand forehead kisses have always been a big part of my relationships with my co-workers. We were always a tight knit family. But now I felt it was all wrong."

Possibly because it was all wrong... Not that it excuses nor explains the assault, a drunkard could possibly assault anyone for any reason, but colleagues are not family nor friends...

Re: Because it needs to be said

#627

Post by yaelwrites »

pg wrote: post #602

I apologize to the world for this thread. There are clearly topics that an open forum, or at least this one, can't be trusted with, and this seems to be one of them. We have some ideas for new moderation features that we hope will make comment threads more civil. I don't know if they would have helped in this case though. The one thing that did work here is the flamewar detector. This story dropped off the frontpage…

Thank you.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#628

Post by whiterabbit2 »

Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

Very good post, right on. I'm a woman, dealt with a number of more unpleasant situations, but wouldn't accept my life shuttered because somebody told me so. It's only beneficial for drama queens/kings, while naive people are thrown into the state of helplessness and hysteria without even realizing it. It's totally the opposite to the women empowerment, the one we want.

I would add 2 things - according to his (now removed, but still available in wayback machine) blog http://web.archive.org/web/20130923014010/http://objo.com/ Joe O'Brian wrote that he was looking for professional help with mental issues or such in June 2013 (substance abuse? a rehab?). So, now the internet is lynching a sick person who already realized a problem and was seeking help? How nice. While the other side blames her drinking problems on the society and "male industry" (how childish).

Second, having dealt with drunk men myself (no drugs or guns involved, just alcohol - like in the story). A slap in the face usually works very well to help him keep his hands to himself. If it still doesn't work, a good smash in the face and moving away works even better. Unless, a lady gets so plastered that she can't move or use her brain, or she's a damsel in distress type. Then her life was ruined long before somebody put a hand into her pants.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#629

Post by volvelle »

volvelle wrote: post #623
chris_wot wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard. The victim needs to be able to in the first place. Often they feel ashamed, which is crazy, sometimes they blame themselves even though its not their fault. That's the point I'm making.

And it's moot - if the author is telling the truth. The author is not ashamed to very publicly make these (as yet) unsubstantiated claims. I assume talking to an abuse charity in private, who help with a police prosecution, causes less shame. The only reason I can think why someone would not go to the police is because independent witnesses (see earlier references to CCTV, the likely sober bartenders over drinking bu…

EDIT:

Having let the furore subside a little, and after reading some more of the numerous comments and articles, "lying/misleading" is the wrong choice of words.

Although I do not buy that the accusers DUI and destructive behaviour are solely caused by this incident, I do not think the author is malicious in their intent.

Extremely sexualised behaviour led to the alleged assaulter going too far. He lost his job as a result, but this was not a criminal offence: HR didn't file a police report, and neither did the alleged victim. No-one else did either.

Embarrassing? Yes. Uncomfortable? Yes. Criminal? No.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#630

Post by DanBC »

volvelle wrote: post #629
volvelle wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's moot - if the author is telling the truth. The author is not ashamed to very publicly make these (as yet) unsubstantiated claims. I assume talking to an abuse charity in private, who help with a police prosecution, causes less shame. The only reason I can think why someone would not go to the police is because independent witnesses (see earlier references to CCTV, the likely sober bartenders over drinking bu…

EDIT: Having let the furore subside a little, and after reading some more of the numerous comments and articles, "lying/misleading" is the wrong choice of words. Although I do not buy that the accusers DUI and destructive behaviour are solely caused by this incident, I do not think the author is malicious in their intent. Extremely sexualised behaviour led to the alleged assaulter going too far. He lost his job as a…

> HR didn't file a police report, and neither did the alleged victim. No-one else did either.

That's a bizarre definition of a criminal offence.

Many people do not contact law enforcement after sexual assault. This is for a variety of reasons including shame, stigma, embarrassment, fear of the forensic procedures, fear of the criminal justice and trial procedures, etc etc.

Post reply on HN