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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#621

Post by senfiaj »

admax88qqq wrote: post #477

This follows the standard windows pattern of every release alternating between bad/good. 98 good ME bad XP good Vista bad 7 good 8 bad 10 good 11 bad When 12 comes windows will be tolerable again.

Windows 10 was not as good as Windows 7 for its time (and even now). After 8/8.1 things started to go downhill. Windows 7 was a really good polished OS with beautiful and consistent UI. Windows 10 UI looks like a Frankenstein, and MS fired a lot of QA folks, now the testing is primarily done on the insiders and regular users. Also these privacy / telemetry / ad problems started from Windows 10.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#622

Post by drnick1 »

j_w wrote: post #550
nicoburns wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there's a power disparity here. I think the clearest example is smart TVs where there have been examples of consumers buying a TV, and then having ads retroactively added to the product a year later. There's not much a consumer could to avoid that. It's our regulatory environment allowing that.

You don't need a TV. If there are only smart TVs then simply don't purchase one. Most consumers are unwilling to take an option that they perceive as inconveniencing them more than getting screwed by the company inconveniences them.

The trick is to use the TV as a monitor and not connect it to the Internet.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#624

Post by [deleted] »

adabyron wrote: post #618

Has it always been a case of incentives with Microsoft? Builders - let's build awesome stuff with great experience. Execs - need to meet next earnings reports goals. Let's sneak a few features to help M$FT stock price at expense to our users. Product suffers... Execs then allow builders to make the products better. Then execs step in again because they need some quick wins. Visual Studio and .NET really seemed to exe…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#625

Post by tombert »

hiciu wrote: post #609
tombert wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is the biggest blocker for my dad, and why I keep losing the argument to get my parents to move to Linux or Mac. Pretty much all their other stuff is stuff that either works fine on Linux or is just in the browser anyway, but the only thing that I don't really have a rebuttal to is when my dad points out that he uses the full-fat excel and a lot of the more modern features. I would so rather they move to Linux,…

> just put Excel inside Winboat or something, but they won't have it Just curious, is it about different tools / workflow / the new thing to learn (and those are valid reasons!) or are there some technical issues with for example Winboat?

They've never used Winboat (or anything Linuxey really), so it's definitely not a fault with Winboat itself.

Honestly I think they really just don't want to change and they're trying to look for ways out because they know that "I don't want to!" isn't going to fly with me if I'm expected to be tech support.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#626

Post by jabroni_salad »

neves wrote: post #299

For me the worst is Microsoft Start news. I've already turned it off multiple times and it always come back. To add insult to injury, it always displays terrible gossip, sports or far right news. If any developer that works in MS news service is reading this message, please know that I hate you.

No no you don't understand. "Here's a picture of some gross toenails" is the sincere best most valuable advertisement that the fourth most valuable company in the united states is capable of delivering. If anything better existed, they would be using it.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#627

Post by coffeemug »

Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

A view from my small corner on the inside: taste isn't merely not incentivized, it's actively disincentivized. It's not selected for during the interview process, if you demonstrate a little of it nobody cares, if you demonstrate too much of it you clash with everyone else's priorities which quickly becomes career limiting. So people willing to fight for taste never advance.

This isn't some nefarious plot to screw over users. Taste is not prioritized because nobody has it and thus can't recognize it. Can't value something you don't even recognize. This is orthogonal to talent btw. Lots of people there who are insanely good at what they do, who produce the most hideous API specs you've ever seen, as one example.

A much more mundane (and almost certainly true) explanation is that people who put all that crap in legitimately thought it's a good idea. Taste is its own thing and it's just not in Microsoft's DNA.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#628

Post by tombert »

bombcar wrote: post #614
tombert wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is the biggest blocker for my dad, and why I keep losing the argument to get my parents to move to Linux or Mac. Pretty much all their other stuff is stuff that either works fine on Linux or is just in the browser anyway, but the only thing that I don't really have a rebuttal to is when my dad points out that he uses the full-fat excel and a lot of the more modern features. I would so rather they move to Linux,…

What do they do with Excel for Windows that they can't do with Excel for Mac?

I'm honestly not sure. I'm sure my dad Googled something to use it as an excuse to not change.

As I said in a sibling comment, I think they really just don't want to change and they are looking for excuses; I suspect even if I could prove that there's absolute feature parity between the two versions they'd just find another reason.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#629

Post by JollySharp0 »

afandian wrote: post #605
JollySharp0 wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An encouragement to be mindful of language, and therefore discuss what shared context we're trying to build, shouldn't be so controversial in a self-professed 'thoughtful' [0] forum. I think you guys complaining about provocative title and not not the substance of what is said, is what people are taking issue with. If I didn't know better, I would honestly think it is concern trolling. > I think it's a bit distaste…

I hope you can take on trust that this is a genuine, exploration of the original point about language. And FTR I have a very low opinion of MS and have had since the late 90s. There are usually all kinds of twists and turns in a HN discussion. And it's not like we're discussing the background colour or something far off-topic, the title is a pretty noticeable part of the article. I don't think it should be verboten t…

> I hope you can take on trust that this is a genuine, exploration of the original point about language.

I find it hard believe that any discussion like this is genuine and I am deeply suspicious of people that complain about hyperbolic and provocative language.

Moreover, I think complaining about it like people have is here is verging on being ridiculous tbh.

Again if I didn't know better (i.e. I don't think this is happen) I would actually think it deliberate to run interference.

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