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Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

bbc.com

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Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#621

Post by DoctorOetker »

donkeybeer wrote: post #617
DoctorOetker wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm explaining why a European holds this position, Iran approaching nuclear weapons capability, approaching ICBM launch capability, approaching re-entry vehicle capability is the "lebensraum" we shouldn't tolerate. Watching from the sidelines disapprovingly, while benefiting in this sense from the US/Israeli mission objectives, and even being "willing to go as far as" effectively posing in a security theater role (si…

Lebensraum? Lebensraum is a very nice word. Israel has been the only country in this that is engaging in Lebensraum. Europe would have negative benefit in joining a stupid war created by fanatical Israeli and American governments.

I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel, I vouch for why a nonzero number of Europeans (including me) think Europe should get involved in disarming Iran, and prevent it from attaining the "lebensraum" to threaten Europe with nuclear weapons.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#622

Post by donkeybeer »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #621
donkeybeer wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lebensraum? Lebensraum is a very nice word. Israel has been the only country in this that is engaging in Lebensraum. Europe would have negative benefit in joining a stupid war created by fanatical Israeli and American governments.

I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel, I vouch for why a nonzero number of Europeans (including me) think Europe should get involved in disarming Iran, and prevent it from attaining the "lebensraum" to threaten Europe with nuclear weapons.

Why not? Then I should in WW2 times have said we must oppose jews and work our hardest to disarm jews and their defenders. Hitler did Lebensraum? I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel.

You seem to have some kind of hallucinatory issue where you see chemical weapons where there are none, and accuse a country that has never done and shown no signs of Lebensraum of doing so while completely ignoring the only country in that region actively doing Lebensraum.

If you worry about Lebensraum you should be working urgently to control and make toothless the only country thats actually doing Lebensraum, not live in made up stories with of your own making that have absolutely zero even speculative sense and getting scared off of them.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#623

Post by donkeybeer »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #598
donkeybeer wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I can see is a video of a woman supposedly fainting and then this being declared her death. If you are trying to insinuate some absurd nonsense like this is evidence of chemical weapons, then be straight. I don't see anything about her cause of death other than speculating police brutality.

chemical weapon is precisely what it is did you see the longer multi-segment video, or just the single scene where she collapses?

Since we are doing wild theories, let us add some more of our own.

Mossad and its private arms are doing covert operations to corrupt European elections, oh wait, they are already doing so. Israel is spraying chemical weapons on neighboring countries crops, oh wait they are already doing so. Israel has 400 nuclear warheads, oh wait they already do.

Strange, I didn't seem to need to go to even speculations and unverified theories to get to these. I wonder how far we can get the tally if go into speculations.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#624

Post by donkeybeer »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #469
DoctorOetker wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, it is clear that you are trolling and acting as a propagandist. Asking a question about how Mahsa Amini died is not trolling or propaganda, its not even a statement, but a question. > You do know that you can be against violence, hatred and bigotry in general, and not just that of your ‘enemies’, right? I know that, but can you please answer the question, it is you who brought up the matter of critical thinkin…

> I know that Do you? Your whataboutism and dismissing concerns about this war as being butthurt is the dumbest and most morally bankrupt response anyone can make. I absolutely condemn the Iranian regime for what they have done, but that in no way excuses what the Israeli and US regimes have done. This was an unnecessary, unprovoked, world-destabilizing and ultimately counterproductive war. Please stop

LMFAO I had tried to engage him since he was insisting so much I thought he might have something of substance. This is what I got at the end of that hole:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47482420

Another fun interaction:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47488236

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#625

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #591
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By such definition, all of science is "sealioning" You are taking an overly literal interpretation of my comment and offering more sophistry in response. Apologies for the short reply but none of the rest seems relevant.

Definitions are to be taken literally yes, otherwise its not a good definition.

That is true, but I did not use your comment to define sealioning. Instead, I offered a definition and said that it matches a particular behavior. To claim that I am including scientific research in that definition is to claim the behavior in question as such. Hence, why I disregarded the rest of that comment as further sophistry: you seem to be arguing because you want to appear smart or correct more than you want to be so. As I said in my initial comment, you do not need to intend to troll in order to troll.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#626

Post by dlubarov »

donkeybeer wrote: post #609
dlubarov wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lies about nukes Such as? Ambiguity (or not sharing information) isn't a lie.

Lying about nukes until Mordechai Vanunu outed the program. Iran has been cooperative in letting its nuclear program being audited, your country like the countless "execptions" it claims for itself does not permit any audits. You tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Israeli nukes must be br…

> Lying

Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

> your country

I'm not Israeli

> the countless "execptions" it claims for itself

What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to.

> played games about nukes

It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

> transferred or decommissionied

Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#627

Post by donkeybeer »

dlubarov wrote: post #626
donkeybeer wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying about nukes until Mordechai Vanunu outed the program. Iran has been cooperative in letting its nuclear program being audited, your country like the countless "execptions" it claims for itself does not permit any audits. You tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Israeli nukes must be br…

> Lying Again do you have some sort of example or evidence? > your country I'm not Israeli > the countless "execptions" it claims for itself What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to. > played games about nukes It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities. > transferred or decommissionied Why would Israel give up a mea…

Who said anything about the NPT? The exceptions are to such things as audits of nukes which the other party here, Iran has had no problems with. Israel also claims exception and offense to the ICCPR which was one of the examples I had in mind of how Israel always seems to want "exceptions" for perfectly normal things.

>It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

Nobody is expecting them to divulge any intelligence about its nuclear weapon systems. Why do Israel supporters always exaggerate and invent things not said by anyone? We ask Israel to simply be subject to similar audits of its nukes as Iran was, being like Iran and several other countries in that region a volatile and violent country. Illegal nukes in such a country should be a subject of concern.

And suppose Iran walks out of NPT, I have a feeling you'd still want to interfere and bomb their attempts at making nukes. So please do not lie that it is anything about the NPT.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Who said I want Israel to give up its means of defence? I only wish for them to be subject to standard audits and inspections.

>Why would Israel give up a means of defending itself, while several of its neighbors continue trying to wipe it off the map? The only way this becomes plausible is if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis stop trying to destroy Israel.

Israel's origin is a long and complex story. No entity in that region is blameless, Israel included.

Again, you tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Obviously they would not wish to divulge sensitive information about their capabilities.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#628

Post by donkeybeer »

dlubarov wrote: post #626
donkeybeer wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying about nukes until Mordechai Vanunu outed the program. Iran has been cooperative in letting its nuclear program being audited, your country like the countless "execptions" it claims for itself does not permit any audits. You tell me, if Iran, Hamas, and (insert other groups you hate) played games about nukes and told you they "don't" have nukes despite having hundreds how would you feel? Israeli nukes must be br…

> Lying Again do you have some sort of example or evidence? > your country I'm not Israeli > the countless "execptions" it claims for itself What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to. > played games about nukes It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities. > transferred or decommissionied Why would Israel give up a mea…

>Again do you have some sort of example or evidence?

There is discrepancy between what Vanunu said and what the government of Israel said. Evidence points to Vanunu being truthful, thus naturally, the Israeli government are liars.

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#629

Post by dlubarov »

donkeybeer wrote: post #628
dlubarov wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lying Again do you have some sort of example or evidence? > your country I'm not Israeli > the countless "execptions" it claims for itself What exceptions? They don't need an exception to an agreement that they never consented to. > played games about nukes It's not much of a game, they just don't divulge sensitive information about their capabilities. > transferred or decommissionied Why would Israel give up a mea…

>Again do you have some sort of example or evidence? There is discrepancy between what Vanunu said and what the government of Israel said. Evidence points to Vanunu being truthful, thus naturally, the Israeli government are liars.

> and what the government of Israel said

Again do you have a particular statement in mind?

Re: Iran launched unsuccessful attack on UK's Diego Garcia

#630

Post by DoctorOetker »

donkeybeer wrote: post #622
DoctorOetker wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel, I vouch for why a nonzero number of Europeans (including me) think Europe should get involved in disarming Iran, and prevent it from attaining the "lebensraum" to threaten Europe with nuclear weapons.

Why not? Then I should in WW2 times have said we must oppose jews and work our hardest to disarm jews and their defenders. Hitler did Lebensraum? I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel. You seem to have some kind of hallucinatory issue where you see chemical weapons where there are none, and accuse a country that has never done and shown no signs of Lebensraum of doing so while completely ignoring the…

> Why not? Then I should in WW2 times have said we must oppose jews and work our hardest to disarm jews and their defenders. Hitler did Lebensraum? I don't vouch for the incentives nor actions of Israel.

I don't understand your argument?

> You seem to have some kind of hallucinatory issue where you see chemical weapons where there are none, and accuse a country that has never done and shown no signs of Lebensraum of doing so while completely ignoring the only country in that region actively doing Lebensraum.

If you believe such discussion would be fruitful I am more than willing to describe what I see when, and how I collate evidence and arrive at my conclusions. I did ask you if you watched the long multi-segment version of Mahsa Amini at the fashion police, or just a short one.

Also take note that anyone else reading along will think it strange that of all possible manners of dying you mentioned the right mode before I mentioned it to you, basically saying you also see it.

It seems you don't understand the concept of lebensraum, I'm not worried about European lebensraum you seem to be referring to: while we failed to learn our lesson after WW1, the mandatory education programmes after WW2 seem to have worked much better, and European nations haven't been lobbing chemical weapons at each other for roughly 100 years now, it works, and we know it works, we disapprove of Iran's regime, not because of their religion (there are muslims in the West as well), not because of skin tone, nor because of the oil under their feet, we disapprove of Iran's regime because we recognize our former collective selves (by education, since almost every direct witness has withered away by the passage of time).

I'm worried about Iran's concept of "lebensraum" involving the capability to threaten Europe with nuclear weapons. Yes Russia, Pakistan, India, China, ... can already do that. Our inability to disarm established nuclear powers should not be confused for acceptance of upcoming nuclear powers. If we can nip those in the bud, we could, we should and I assure you we will.

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