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We mourn our craft

nolanlawson.com

621–630 of 918 posts

Re: We mourn our craft

#621

Dunno, LLMs writing code still feels like they memorized a bunch of open source code and vomited them out in worse condition. It's not that impressive that Claude wrote a C compiler when GitHub has the code to a bunch of C compilers (some SOTA) just sitting there. I'm using an LLM to write a compiler in my spare time (for fun) for a "new" language. It feels more like a magical search engine than coding assistant. It'…

C compiler it wrote doesnt even compile. Waste of $20k

Re: We mourn our craft

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. I mean, my view is that it needs to be "build the right things right", vs "build things right and then discover if they are the right things". It's a stab at premature optimisation, focusing on code elegance more than delivering working software. Code simplicity, good design, scalability, are super important for maintainability, even in the age of AI (maybe even more so). But considering that AI will more…

> it needs to be "build the right things right", vs "build things right and then discover if they are the right things" I still think this is a bad comparison and I hoped my prior comment would handle this. Frankly, you're always going to end up in the second situation[0] simply because of 2 hard truths. 1) you're not omniscient and 2) even if you were, the environment isn't static. > But considering that AI will mor…

> The reason I'm not in favor of natural language programming has nothing to do with its probabilistic nature and everything to do with its lack of precision

Yeah, even if they're made to be 100% deterministic, you've now got a programming language whose rules are deterministic, but hard to understand. You've effectively pinned the meaning of the natural language in some way, but not a way that anyone can effectively learn, and one that doesn't necessarily match their understanding of the actual natural language.

Re: We mourn our craft

#624
post #98
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. This sums up my own feeling. I joined this craft and love this craft for the simple ability to build beautiful and useful things. This new world makes me more effective at it. And this new world doesn’t prevent me from crafting elegant architectures either.

Wait 5 years and your skills are down

It won't be 5 years, it'll be less than a year. When you don't exercise, your muscles atrophy. It's the same for any other skill. I use to speak conversational french in college, fast forward 10 years later and my understanding is no different than a casual "Emily in Paris" fan.

It'll be the same here, the only question is if those that do exercise will be able to command better salaries. I think this is possible but not with the current political climate.

Re: We mourn our craft

#625
I feel like most of the anxiety around LLMs is because (in the USA at least) our social safety net sucks.

I'd probably have way more fun debating LLMs if it wasn't tied to my ability to pay rent, have healthcare, or feel like a valued person contributing something to society. If we had universal healthcare and a federal job guarantee it would probably calm things down.

Re: We mourn our craft

#626

LLMs are only a threat if you see your job as a code monkey. In that case you're likely already obsoleted by outsourced staff who can do your job much cheaper. If you see your job as a "thinking about what code to write (or not)" monkey, then you're safe. I expect most seniors and above to be in this position, and LLMs are absolutely not replacing you here - they can augment you in certain situations. The perks of a…

LLMs are a threat to the quality of code in a similar - but much more dramatic - way to high level languages and Electron. I am slightly worried about keeping a job if there's a downturn, but I'm much more worried about my job shifting into being the project manager for a farm of slop machines with no taste and a complete inability to learn.

Re: We mourn our craft

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got 8 year old Go code that still compiles fine on the latest Go compiler. Go has its warts but backwards compatibility isn’t one of them. The language is almost as durable as Perl.

8 years is not that long, if it can still compile in say 20 years then sure but 8 years in this industry isn't that long at all (unless you're into self flagellation by working on the web).

If they change the syntax sure but you can always use today's compiler if necessary. I generally find the go binaries to have even fewer external dependencies than a C/Cpp project.

Re: We mourn our craft

#629
post #8

While I'm on the fence about LLMs there's something funny about seeing an industry of technologists tear their own hair out about how technology is destroying their jobs. We're the industry of "we'll automate your job away". Why are we so indignant when we do it to ourselves...

This article isn't really about losing a job. Coding is a passion for some of us. It's similar to artists and diffusion, the only difference being that many people can appreciate human art - but who (outside of us) cares that a human wrote the code?

> Coding is a passion for some of us.

It's a passion for me too, but LLMs don't change this for me. Do they change it for you?

Re: We mourn our craft

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were there similar gnashing of the teeth and wails of despair when compilers were first introduced? Yes, at least according to ChatGPT: "Compilers didn’t arrive to universal applause; they arrived into a world where a chunk of programmers absolutely believed the machine could not be trusted to write “real” code—until the productivity wins (and eventually the performance) became undeniable." Damn that sounds familia…

compiler is deterministic, coding models are not. compilers have been unit tested and will generate same output for a given input. They are not the same things.

So?
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