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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#621

Post by testing22321 »

sfblah wrote: post #576
testing22321 wrote: post #55

Just before its release there was some press about a few high ups at Tesla who urged Elon to make a “traditional” looking pickup alongside the cyber truck in case it was a flip, but Elon shut them down hard. I’d be really interested to know if they’re going to do that. The tech is incredible and will filter into all vehicles in a decade or so (48v, Ethernet instead of CAN, etc)

Any other tech? Because Ethernet and 48v don't sound "incredible." They sound "incremental."

They’re both things the legacy automakers have been trying to do for 10 or 15 years, but they just couldn’t pull it off without getting all the suppliers on board.

Both result in much lighter wiring, saving money.

The steer by wire is also very cool, but I don’t know enough to say if it’s justified on regular cars or a cost saving.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#622

Post by Nextgrid »

kulahan wrote: post #616
Nextgrid wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have the loan rates for 6-10 years memorized, not 3-5 years Playing Devil's Advocate, if you're going to be fucked either way, why not be fucked and have a nice truck than not? It seems like, at least from an uninformed EU perspective, that if the "system" gives you the ability to get a big truck for no worse off that if you weren't going to get it, why wouldn't you? It seems like auto manufacturers overly inf…

Because most people who are fucked, are fucked due to terrible money spending habits. Tons and tons of people who make six figures are living paycheck to paycheck. Not because they must but because they won't stop spending poorly. Again, I don't understand the desperate internet trend of defending terrible choices by focusing on the, like, 0.001% of people who do everything right and still fail. We've got the highest…

I was hoping for some genuine counterpoints but this just feels like a rant? It feels like the stereotypical response that millennials could afford property if only they didn’t spend their money on avocado toast at Starbucks.

Let’s say a normal car costs you $200/month and a big truck costs 400.

200 is not going to make a difference in your situation - you are either good either way or close to breaking point and therefore fucked either way (if not this month, then the next one when you have an unexpected large expense).

If you’re fucked, why not take advantage as much as possible and get the most truck for your buck? Well “your buck” in quotes but you get my point.

If my budget was at breaking point and for only 200 bucks extra (one time payment since I’m gonna default next month) you can bet I’m gonna take advantage and get another ~20k worth of truck that I’ll get to keep until the bankruptcy proceedings complete (at which point the extra would’ve depreciated off anyway). Or is there something I’m missing?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#623

Post by plorg »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #603
dylan604 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space. I miss the hell out of my '82 Chevrolet S10 with extended cab and two-tone paint job. The extended cab isn't going to be used for hauling the soccer team, but I could put it was plenty of space for "inside only" cargo. Damn thing threw a rod and cracked the case, and I…

You could run a single issue presidential campaign on bringing the S10 back (all it would really take is patching some weired emissions regulations mistakes). A better truck from a better time.

My pitch to the people near me who have no connection to the auto industry is that an electric Ranger (90's style) would have been a huge hit. I get the feeling that the Lightning came about because Ford managers don't really know how to make vehicles that regular people want.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#624

Post by mc3301 »

yowayb wrote: post #585
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

I once rented a "kei van" in Japan once. I think I remember seeing similarly utilitarian trucks, but forget what they were called. I found the kei vans very practical.

I have one. Four wheel drive, turbo, 660cc little motor. There's even a cute "bashguard" built in to the oil filter, which is hilariously the lowest thing to the ground. No frills. Knobs control everything.

I love it. Full-flat back allows for camping in your car (I'm just over 6 feet tall.) Three bicycles and three people can fit. Wood, tools, DIY... And it is tiny, so it is easy to drive and park.

It doesn't like driving faster than about 110km/hr, but that's good enough for me.

The utilitarian trucks you are talking about are k-trucks, or kei-trucks. "Kei" just means "lightweight."

In Japan, they are refered to as "kei-tora": 軽トラ

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#625

Post by mfkp »

GloriousKoji wrote: post #520
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are encouraged to slam on your brakes at least once a month to get the rust off. I live on the west coast (rain but low humidity and hardly any snow), so its less of an issue.

You'd think with all that electronics it would be smart enough to use real brakes every now and then. The plug in hybrid Prius runs the gas engine every 100 miles or so.

Some cars do this. Audi and Porsche (if I recall correctly) use the disc brakes for the first couple stops each drive to knock off the rust if there's any build up. I think I remember reading that Ford uses the real brakes if you're under 5mph. I'm sure other manufacturers do something similar (other than Tesla which apparently doesn't do anything to help).

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#626

Post by UltraSane »

billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

Elon had to ignore so many people who told him using stainless steel was a very bad idea

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#627

Post by UltraSane »

mrexroad wrote: post #485
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

A minivan with the two rear seats removed can move so much stuff.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#628

Post by edgineer »

alexjplant wrote: post #183
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

That's opinion/stereotype, and unsupported. From Rob Cockerham's experiment (2002):

"I guessed that 98% of all truck beds are empty"

"In 25 minutes I had counted 150 trucks, and 99 of them had been empty. This 66% empty ratio was much lower than I had expected. I hadn't realized that so many trucks were being so successfully utilized."

"The results were similar: 39% of the trucks were hauling goods, and 61 of them were empty"

"Along with this adjustment of my perception, I also realized that an empty truck is no more wasteful than an empty back seat. Most cars AND trucks in the US drive around with 75% of the cargo space unutilized...what difference does it make if it is interior or exterior space?"

https://cockeyed.com/science/data/truck_beds/truck_beds.html

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#629

Post by apaprocki »

exabrial wrote: post #613

I swear, Telsa makes cars for gamers. If you're not in this demographic, it's not for you. Ford, GM, everyone needs to stop emulating Tesla. Practical people do not want this. Unfortunately other automakers see this as the pinnacle of interior engineering; swoon over this and try to pull a "LETS REMOVE ALL OF THE BUTTONS, ITS WHAT CONSUMERS WANT" maneuver. All consumers really need/want is an affordable, repairable,…

My anecdata feeling from all the Tesla owners I know is that they stole customers wanting affordable, repairable, etc. from Japanese manufacturers and they stole customers who were luxury car buyers (Ford, GM, etc. weren’t even competitors) willing to forego some luxury for the EV.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#630

Post by chung8123 »

wffurr wrote: post #413
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is Trucks are a visible lifestyle preferences that does not align with yours.

You can have all the weird lifestyle preferences you want that don't involve conspicuous waste of natural resources and accelerating anthropogenic climate change.

I find most people with critical looks at trucks have not looked at their own habits the most. Some have but I bet there are a lot of meat eaters here talking about how wasteful trucks are.
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