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If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

stephenramsay.net

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Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#621

Post by pmarreck »

awesome_dude wrote: post #577
pmarreck wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people are also still clearly confusing "isn't human or conscious" with "can't possibly create new logical thoughts or come to new logical conclusions i.e. do intellectual labor" when there is a plethora of evidence at this point that the latter is, in fact, the truth

I'm not sure if you mean that as a dig, or not, but if you are referring to me then I have these data points to discuss. 1. I have encountered a problem where AI will suggest 4 different "solutions" and when I point out a problem with one, it cycles on to the next, and stays in that loop, repeating over and over that set of 4, with no recollection of the previous refutation of the soltuion (this is a mix of context r…

I don't contest these examples, but that's exactly why I call what it does "thunking" (think: "clumsy thinking") instead of "thinking" (in order to get around the epistemological/philosophical problems of "is it conscious?" or "does it understand?"), and since it doesn't "understand," it "undersits", and it doesn't "comprehend", it "prehends" or "ingests".

Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#622

Post by throwforfeds »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #535
throwforfeds wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it's really nice to just have Claude run the compilers and linters when it's done making a change, as it often has some mistakes and will catch them at this step. It lets me step in for review after some trivially stupid thing is fixed up, rather than wasting my own time.

I'm starting to believe other people have a very different experience from me. I use AI to write Terraform. It "fixes" things I don't want "fixed", changes the functionality I wanted, disobeys restrictions I gave it, etc. About half of the time, my time is wasted.

Yeah, I haven't used it to write Terraform yet and am not surprised that it would trip on itself with it. However, I did do a major refactor to AWS CDK using TypeScript and Claude worked really well. I treat it as a pair programmer, have it work really atomically, and always question it's work. I find scoping things down really helps with the quality of it's output.

Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#623

Post by seg_lol »

gitremote wrote: post #33

Software development jobs must be very diverse if even this anti-vibe-coding guy thinks AI coding definitely makes developers more productive. In my work, the bigger bottleneck to productivity is that very few people can correctly articulate requirements. I work in backend, API development, which is completely different from fullstack development with backend development. If you ask PMs about backend requirements, th…

AI coding allows me to simulate that system, cross reference it with what the document says wrt what the customer wants and figure out holes in the spec. Having to code something to find the hole in the definition, the spec, the problem, the anything was a necessary step in building a sound working system.

That is no longer the case.

Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#624

Post by seg_lol »

swatcoder wrote: post #81
jcelerier wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I've never worked in an environment that seemed too complex. On my side my primary blocker is writing code. I have an unending list of features, protocols, experiments, etc. to implement, and so far the main limit was the time necessary to actually write the damn code.

That sounds like papier mache more than bridge building, forever pasting more code on as ideas and time permit without the foresight to engineer or architect towards some cohesive long-term vision. Most software products built that way seem to move fast at first but become monstrous abominations over time. If those are the only places you keep finding yourself in, be careful!

Fun fact, papier mache was used to create bathtubs and can make furniture that holds an amazing amount of weight.

Learn to Build With Cardboard! STRONG, Waterproof and Free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45JhacvmXV8

Building a Flyable Airplane out of CardBoard! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T46SHLzlV1A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papier-mâché

Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#625

Post by Breza »

gitremote wrote: post #33

Software development jobs must be very diverse if even this anti-vibe-coding guy thinks AI coding definitely makes developers more productive. In my work, the bigger bottleneck to productivity is that very few people can correctly articulate requirements. I work in backend, API development, which is completely different from fullstack development with backend development. If you ask PMs about backend requirements, th…

I really wonder if we're going to see a reversion to old school project management, with a PMBOK's worth of detailed project documents for every major initiative instead of the modern Agile/Scrum/Kanban approach that seems to work better for human devs. If you can get everyone to agree on the minutia of, for example, the Stakeholder Management Plan, up front then the LLM actually has a chance of developing a decent program that has the features everyone wants.

Then again, if humans could agree on all the project minutia at the outset, we never would have developed the other systems.

Re: If you're going to vibe code, why not do it in C?

#626

Post by lomase »

lmm wrote: post #594
lomase wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idiomatic Java too.

Not my experience. For example the "official" way of achieving the equivalent of sum types (the visitor pattern) is so verbose that idiomatic Java tends to use the equivalent of a "single table inheritance" style instead of proper domain modelling, which inevitably leads to all sorts of logic errors. Idiomatic Java uses "magic" AOP because the alternatives are too verbose, but this also inevitably causes logic errors…

I mean if you write bad code and don't follow the guidelines what you expect?
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